*Official* Pak In NZ Thread - Page 13

anzac · 03-01-2004, 06:38 AM

saw the first 25 overs b4 having to go to work....
Oram & Tuffey were bowling too short still in their opening overs but managed to improve....
Cairns got off to a dream start.........
and then I missed the rest of it............

great to get home & see NZ managed to get up and win with Styris getting an unbeaten ton to boot........good to see McCullum batting with some responsibility again as he did on several occaisions in the TVS Cup.....

unfortunately there is still much work to be done regarding the top & middle order and the bowling esp at the death.....we'll see what happens on Wednesday b4 any changes are made.......although I agree with Tim re playing both Cairns & Oram.....

Tim · 03-01-2004, 05:02 PM

Oram & Cairns are just not consistent enough with the bat for New Zealand to have that luxury.
On form i'd pick Oram over Cairns because Oram seems to be bowling quite well & maybe if he's told that he's the sole all-rounder he might put some more responsibility on his shoulders.

Now that leaves a gap for an extra batsman or bowler..but what do NZ do? we're struggling with bowlers & our middle order is brittle.

We definately need more pace in our bowling attack for sure, but Butler as quick as he can be can also be a liability because he seems to be quite erratic when he doesn't get it right.
As for a #6 batsman, well thats really tough because I can't see anyone saying "pick me, pick me" but maybe Rob Nicol as an outside chance? I don't know...he'd be a longshot.

Ming · 03-01-2004, 08:00 PM

Wonderful innings from the ND man! 101* certainly saved us out of jail when we looked out of it when Cairns got out.

Also good to see young McCullum supporting him well at the other end, just nudging the singles to give Styris the strike. His running between the wickets was lightning quick, good contribution from him down the order.

The chase was looking shakey at the start when Cumming was run out, but Styris and Fleming steadied the ship. If he continues to fail, Papps is breathing down his neck fast with his 3rd century of the season already.

Again, the bowling at the death is big worry, with Andre Adams getting thrashed around the park with his wayward bowling. Scotty Styris bowled tightly, and surely he must be our option at the death for Queenstown. Oram bowled well at the start, beating the bat numerous times while Cairns was impressive as well.

Ming · 03-01-2004, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim
Oram & Cairns are just not consistent enough with the bat for New Zealand to have that luxury.
On form i'd pick Oram over Cairns because Oram seems to be bowling quite well & maybe if he's told that he's the sole all-rounder he might put some more responsibility on his shoulders.

Now that leaves a gap for an extra batsman or bowler..but what do NZ do? we're struggling with bowlers & our middle order is brittle.

We definately need more pace in our bowling attack for sure, but Butler as quick as he can be can also be a liability because he seems to be quite erratic when he doesn't get it right.
As for a #6 batsman, well thats really tough because I can't see anyone saying "pick me, pick me" but maybe Rob Nicol as an outside chance? I don't know...he'd be a longshot.

I don't mind if Oram doesn't perform with the bat as long as he does it with the ball, which he did. He was superb, and continued his ODI and Test form to again take the first wicket of an innings. He's batting at 7/8 at the moment, and Bracewell has said he wants specialists and has said that he doesn't midn if the likes of Oram don't perform with the bat at 8.

Now, why do we need pace in our attack eh? Our strength is in our medium pace bowling, and we do that well if Tuffey and Oram at the top. If you watched the same games as me mate, I thought Oram, Tuffey and Cairns were top-notch at the top...:rolleyes:

Butler is not that quick anyway, Shoaib consistently hit the low 140's and that's around the same as Butler. Even though he got a 6-wicket bag, he is still to inconsistent to be competent at ODI level. He delivers at least 1 4-ball an over. I would like to see Mills given a go instead of the up and down Adams. Mills can swing the ball, something that our team lacks, and would add some variety to the attack.

What do you mean by a 6 batsman? We are more in search for a top order, you can always move the current 4 and 5s down one place. I've always felt that Styris and McMillan are actualy 5 and 6's and are both one place to high. In a perfect world you would have Fleming and a newcomer like Papps, Astle at 3 and Marshall and then Styris, McMillan, Oram, McCullum.

Ming · 03-01-2004, 08:13 PM

So this was the reason he wasn't playing aye....

Quote:

Shoaib Akhtar might put fear into batsmen when sending down deliveries among the fastest ever bowled in cricket.

But he wasn’t able to take his place in today’s one-day international against New Zealand because of a blow he suffered in a very tender place that was delivered by a slow old off-spinner.

At the team’s training on Friday, Akhtar was batting without a box, the groin protector favoured by most people who wield a bat.

The inevitable happened and Akhtar, the scourge of batsmen, was rendered incapable of playing today because of a blow to the groin that he took from the off-spinner Danish Kaneria.

Coach Javed Miandad said Ahktar will be back to his "potent" best at Queenstown.

krkode · 03-01-2004, 08:14 PM

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Styris is the mean deal.

A younger Chris Harris, likely better... :wow:

Ming · 03-01-2004, 08:25 PM

Since Styris is such a consistent bowler, how should we use him?

At the death? Middle stages with Vettori? First-change to make use of his ability to swing and cut the ball?

Certainly not a bad headache to have!

Tim · 03-01-2004, 08:27 PM

Well yeah, Styris bowls a consistent line & length but he's never really had a consistent spell of form with the ball.

Like everyone else he's been tried at the 'death' and failed. I think he should bowl middle overs much like Larsen did & try and contain the runs.

Ming · 03-01-2004, 08:50 PM

Tim, what do you make of these medium, medium-fast, fast-medium stuff?

Do you think Styris is medium-fast or medium-pace?

Because over there in Aussie, they put Agarkar as medium-fast when he bowls around 135.

Tuffey is fast-medium when I think he's not....Adams is fast-medium....

Tim · 03-01-2004, 08:53 PM

It's a joke I think...There is no way Tuffey is RFM, I would consider RFM to be anywhere between 135 km's & 145 km's. Tuffey bowls more between 125 & 132 making him RMF.

Styris is possibly around 125 km's isn't he? so he'd just be considered RMF.

Ming · 03-01-2004, 08:57 PM

It's funny how the commentators label Styris of a slower pace than Tuffey, when Styris is just the same if not a notch faster.

Oram would be RMF as well, but I think Butler is only RFM. He rarely gets upto 150, which is really RF.

Tim · 03-01-2004, 09:00 PM

Yeah i've never seen Oram bowl faster than 135 km's so yeah he's also RMF.

I agree...Butler is not RF like Cricinfo say. Occassionally he's got one above 145, but I think to be RF you need to be consistently above 145 km's.

anzac · 04-01-2004, 08:02 AM

I'd pick another batsman if Cairns was not playing - not sure who tho' maybe even Vincent could be better lower in the order if he can repeat his form from Jade Stadium last year v India....anyone who can score consistantly in the top - lower order in domestic ODIs would be in contention, after all Lehman opens for SA but bats at 5 for ODIs so the likes of Vincent & Cumming should not be discounted IMO....

the reason why I want some pace (or at least variation) in the NZ seam attack is that Tuffey, Oram, Cairns & Styris are all about the same pace, all are right arm over and rely on movement from the seam off the wicket & bowl back of a length - too much the same & easy for the batsmen to settle & why they get creamed at the death.....at low 130s the batsmen have plenty of time......

ATM Butler's style doesn't suit ODIs unless he slows down to control his line & bowls high 130s as opposed to 140+ (like he did in the 2nd innings of the 2nd Test in India)......I also think he has problems adjusting to the different roles of intimidation v line & length (a la Brett Lee???)....

I agree that Styris should be used in the middle overs rather than at the death, but it would depend on the state of the match & what the make-up was of the bowling attack.....again I don't like to see 2 of the same type of bowlers operating at the death - it's just too easy at this pace....

Adams can generate some pace but IMO he still bowls short & his action means he can loose his line & be expensive......other bowlers possibly still in the mix could include the likes of Canning, Walker, Mills, Hitchcock, or even Wilson....but I'm not sure who are the 'death' specialists in State Shield.........

FRAZ · 04-01-2004, 06:19 PM

I guess Pakistan is gonna change the batting order just before the match . I bet ...May be they are gonna make a change too .As far as Bowling then I guess Sami is out of sorts completely , I think he should be replaced .Sami is the only younger player who hasnt been under Wasim's supervision .

Dougie Rydal · 06-01-2004, 03:01 PM

Hi all, my first post on this site...

I can't understand why the NZ selectors don't pick Matthew Walker, he's a proven One Day bowler with an excellent domestic record. And he often bowls at the death. I'm far from convinced with Adams, he might return good figures every now and then, but that's not good enough, we need our players performing on a regular basis. we don't have the indidual stars that other countries have, so we need all our players performing regularly to be competitve.

I agree with some of the previous comments regarding Cumming, although i would be happy to give him another couple of outings to see if he can cut it at this level. In domestic cricket here, he averages around 18. Personally I reckon the time is fast approaching to give young Papps a go, which would mean no McCullum, and thru not fault of his own, but i can't see the point of having 2 keepers in the side. Having Papps opening and keeping would allow us to play another batsmas/bowler/all-rounder.

03-01-2004, 08:00 PM	#183 (permalink)
Ming State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong - Asia's World City Posts: 723	Wonderful innings from the ND man! 101* certainly saved us out of jail when we looked out of it when Cairns got out. Also good to see young McCullum supporting him well at the other end, just nudging the singles to give Styris the strike. His running between the wickets was lightning quick, good contribution from him down the order. The chase was looking shakey at the start when Cumming was run out, but Styris and Fleming steadied the ship. If he continues to fail, Papps is breathing down his neck fast with his 3rd century of the season already. Again, the bowling at the death is big worry, with Andre Adams getting thrashed around the park with his wayward bowling. Scotty Styris bowled tightly, and surely he must be our option at the death for Queenstown. Oram bowled well at the start, beating the bat numerous times while Cairns was impressive as well. __________________ GO THE BLACK CAPS!!!

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03-01-2004, 06:38 AM	#181 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	saw the first 25 overs b4 having to go to work.... Oram & Tuffey were bowling too short still in their opening overs but managed to improve.... Cairns got off to a dream start......... and then I missed the rest of it............ great to get home & see NZ managed to get up and win with Styris getting an unbeaten ton to boot........good to see McCullum batting with some responsibility again as he did on several occaisions in the TVS Cup..... unfortunately there is still much work to be done regarding the top & middle order and the bowling esp at the death.....we'll see what happens on Wednesday b4 any changes are made.......although I agree with Tim re playing both Cairns & Oram.....

03-01-2004, 05:02 PM	#182 (permalink)
Tim Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Auckland Posts: 7,888	Oram & Cairns are just not consistent enough with the bat for New Zealand to have that luxury. On form i'd pick Oram over Cairns because Oram seems to be bowling quite well & maybe if he's told that he's the sole all-rounder he might put some more responsibility on his shoulders. Now that leaves a gap for an extra batsman or bowler..but what do NZ do? we're struggling with bowlers & our middle order is brittle. We definately need more pace in our bowling attack for sure, but Butler as quick as he can be can also be a liability because he seems to be quite erratic when he doesn't get it right. As for a #6 batsman, well thats really tough because I can't see anyone saying "pick me, pick me" but maybe Rob Nicol as an outside chance? I don't know...he'd be a longshot.

03-01-2004, 08:14 PM	#186 (permalink)
krkode State Captain Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,781	I've said it before, I'll say it again. Styris is the mean deal. A younger Chris Harris, likely better... :wow:

03-01-2004, 08:25 PM	#187 (permalink)
Ming State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong - Asia's World City Posts: 723	Since Styris is such a consistent bowler, how should we use him? At the death? Middle stages with Vettori? First-change to make use of his ability to swing and cut the ball? Certainly not a bad headache to have!

03-01-2004, 08:27 PM	#188 (permalink)
Tim Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Auckland Posts: 7,888	Well yeah, Styris bowls a consistent line & length but he's never really had a consistent spell of form with the ball. Like everyone else he's been tried at the 'death' and failed. I think he should bowl middle overs much like Larsen did & try and contain the runs.

03-01-2004, 08:50 PM	#189 (permalink)
Ming State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong - Asia's World City Posts: 723	Tim, what do you make of these medium, medium-fast, fast-medium stuff? Do you think Styris is medium-fast or medium-pace? Because over there in Aussie, they put Agarkar as medium-fast when he bowls around 135. Tuffey is fast-medium when I think he's not....Adams is fast-medium....

03-01-2004, 08:53 PM	#190 (permalink)
Tim Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Auckland Posts: 7,888	It's a joke I think...There is no way Tuffey is RFM, I would consider RFM to be anywhere between 135 km's & 145 km's. Tuffey bowls more between 125 & 132 making him RMF. Styris is possibly around 125 km's isn't he? so he'd just be considered RMF.

03-01-2004, 08:57 PM	#191 (permalink)
Ming State 12th Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Hong Kong - Asia's World City Posts: 723	It's funny how the commentators label Styris of a slower pace than Tuffey, when Styris is just the same if not a notch faster. Oram would be RMF as well, but I think Butler is only RFM. He rarely gets upto 150, which is really RF.

03-01-2004, 09:00 PM	#192 (permalink)
Tim Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Auckland Posts: 7,888	Yeah i've never seen Oram bowl faster than 135 km's so yeah he's also RMF. I agree...Butler is not RF like Cricinfo say. Occassionally he's got one above 145, but I think to be RF you need to be consistently above 145 km's.

04-01-2004, 08:02 AM	#193 (permalink)
anzac International Debutant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canberra, ACT Posts: 2,585	I'd pick another batsman if Cairns was not playing - not sure who tho' maybe even Vincent could be better lower in the order if he can repeat his form from Jade Stadium last year v India....anyone who can score consistantly in the top - lower order in domestic ODIs would be in contention, after all Lehman opens for SA but bats at 5 for ODIs so the likes of Vincent & Cumming should not be discounted IMO.... the reason why I want some pace (or at least variation) in the NZ seam attack is that Tuffey, Oram, Cairns & Styris are all about the same pace, all are right arm over and rely on movement from the seam off the wicket & bowl back of a length - too much the same & easy for the batsmen to settle & why they get creamed at the death.....at low 130s the batsmen have plenty of time...... ATM Butler's style doesn't suit ODIs unless he slows down to control his line & bowls high 130s as opposed to 140+ (like he did in the 2nd innings of the 2nd Test in India)......I also think he has problems adjusting to the different roles of intimidation v line & length (a la Brett Lee???).... I agree that Styris should be used in the middle overs rather than at the death, but it would depend on the state of the match & what the make-up was of the bowling attack.....again I don't like to see 2 of the same type of bowlers operating at the death - it's just too easy at this pace.... Adams can generate some pace but IMO he still bowls short & his action means he can loose his line & be expensive......other bowlers possibly still in the mix could include the likes of Canning, Walker, Mills, Hitchcock, or even Wilson....but I'm not sure who are the 'death' specialists in State Shield.........

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06-01-2004, 03:01 PM	#195 (permalink)
Dougie Rydal Cricket Spectator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Christchurch, NZ Posts: 26	Hi all, my first post on this site... I can't understand why the NZ selectors don't pick Matthew Walker, he's a proven One Day bowler with an excellent domestic record. And he often bowls at the death. I'm far from convinced with Adams, he might return good figures every now and then, but that's not good enough, we need our players performing on a regular basis. we don't have the indidual stars that other countries have, so we need all our players performing regularly to be competitve. I agree with some of the previous comments regarding Cumming, although i would be happy to give him another couple of outings to see if he can cut it at this level. In domestic cricket here, he averages around 18. Personally I reckon the time is fast approaching to give young Papps a go, which would mean no McCullum, and thru not fault of his own, but i can't see the point of having 2 keepers in the side. Having Papps opening and keeping would allow us to play another batsmas/bowler/all-rounder.