Michael Clarke

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by stephen

And it's not like Clarke has been feasting on poor sides either. Most of his runs have come against top 4 sides. And a good chunk of them against South Africa, who have got the best bowling attack in the world right now. Really hope his form continues for the Ashes coming.

Nah bro, India.

He's undeniably cashed in big on flat decks and **** bowling for some of the big knocks, but you don't see others who batted alongside him even remotely match him. On the opposite end of the spectrum he's also scored runs when Australia have been reduced to nothing for 3, routinely digging them out of trouble. Oh and of course, his bitchin hundred in SA.

[chaminda_00]

Originally Posted by Daemon

His purple patch has just coincided with him playing more matches at home, it's as simple as that. In the one series he played away he played one of, if not the best, knock of this year.

You may bring this point up again if he proves to be a poor traveler in the coming years by all means but when we're comparing players as of their current ability and form there is no doubt he's right up there with the best.

During his purple patch last (two seasons) he had three awesome innings and 9 average innings, with an overall average of under 40 away. He has yet to really show a major improvement away, just status quo.

Though considering there has been very little technical adjustments in his game. Just mental i would be surprised if he doesn't average scoring more consistently. But I'm from the school of thought, you have to put the runs on board before you can start taking about him as an ATG.

The whole thing is nothing about the fact he can't bat overseas. It just his current overseas record put him below the ATGs. Not really a HTB imo.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by chaminda_00

Yep Trichromatic there quite a few people that agree with you. But many others that are blinded by his 1/8 good innings and forgot about the other 7/8 average innings away from home.

Clarke's 150 in South Africa was like Sangakkara's 192 in Hobart - they've been watershed knocks that have proven that the batsman, while averaging more in their home country, are still absolute class anywhere in the world.

[stephen]

Originally Posted by chaminda_00

During his purple patch last (two seasons) he had three awesome innings and 9 average innings, with an overall average of under 40 away. He has yet to really show a major improvement away, just status quo.

Though considering there has been very little technical adjustments in his game. Just mental i would be surprised if he doesn't average scoring more consistently. But I'm from the school of thought, you have to put the runs on board before you can start taking about him as an ATG.

The whole thing is nothing about the fact he can't bat overseas. It just his current overseas record put him below the ATGs. Not really a HTB imo.

I agree that it's too soon to talk about him being up there with Border or Waugh, but he's certainly making a very big impression. If it's a sustained run then he will go down in the same league as Waugh, but if not he'll be remembered more as a MoYo - brilliant for a while but ultimately not quite up there with the best.

[Prince EWS]

Personally I find the idea of picking the guy's record apart when he's only very recently become a world class batsman to be pretty silly. If he still hasn't scored consistent runs away from home when he's retired then fair enough but he hasn't been a batsman of this quality for long enough to make a dent in his away record, which is IMO anyway the reason it isn't great.

[chaminda_00]

Originally Posted by rvd619323

Clarke's 150 in South Africa was like Sangakkara's 192 in Hobart - they've been watershed knocks that have proven that the batsman, while averaging more in their home country, are still absolute class anywhere in the world.

The think is that innings from Sangakkara was after multiple other innings overseas of that class. It was more of just an indicator that he play those innings in Australia as well as other countries like he had been going for 2-3 years prior to that knock.

Where as with Clarke is was just another occasional top innings he can play overseas. He still not anywhere as consistent as Sangakkara and other top players away from home.

[chaminda_00]

Originally Posted by stephen

I agree that it's too soon to talk about him being up there with Border or Waugh, but he's certainly making a very big impression. If it's a sustained run then he will go down in the same league as Waugh, but if not he'll be remembered more as a MoYo - brilliant for a while but ultimately not quite up there with the best.

Have you seen MoYo overall record overseas, or are you just making that statement based on his Australian record. He has a very good overall record overseas on par with Border and Waugh.

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by chaminda_00

During his purple patch last (two seasons) he had three awesome innings and 9 average innings, with an overall average of under 40 away. He has yet to really show a major improvement away, just status quo.

Though considering there has been very little technical adjustments in his game. Just mental i would be surprised if he doesn't average scoring more consistently. But I'm from the school of thought, you have to put the runs on board before you can start taking about him as an ATG.

The whole thing is nothing about the fact he can't bat overseas. It just his current overseas record put him below the ATGs. Not really a HTB imo.

No one is really saying he's an ATG in this thread though, I thought people were just trying to say if they had to pick a current Test XI, he'd definitely be in it.

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Personally I find the idea of picking the guy's record apart when he's only very recently become a world class batsman to be pretty silly. If he still hasn't scored consistent runs away from home when he's retired then fair enough but he hasn't been a batsman of this quality for long enough to make a dent in his away record, which is IMO anyway the reason it isn't great.

Yeah, AWTA.

[8ankitj]

Michael Clarke is the next Virat Kohli

[Dan]

Originally Posted by chaminda_00

Have you seen MoYo overall record overseas, or are you just making that statement based on his Australian record. He has a very good overall record overseas on par with Border and Waugh.

More a comment on the length of his peak than an overseas record, TBH. One year of absolutely godly peak contrasted against a good, but not ATG, remainder of career.

Basically the path Clarke would be on if he reverts to being the batsman he was pre-captaincy, and finishes his career that way.

[stephen]

Originally Posted by rvd619323

More a comment on the length of his peak than an overseas record, TBH. One year of absolutely godly peak contrasted against a good, but not ATG, remainder of career.

Basically the path Clarke would be on if he reverts to being the batsman he was pre-captaincy, and finishes his career that way.

This.

MoYo was a very good batsman. But to put him up in the same echelon as someone like Border or Richards would be a disservice to the others. Similarly, unless Clarke can continue at an average of 50+ for a few more years he'll only go down as a batsman who had a spectacular peak and was else-wise very good.

[chaminda_00]

Originally Posted by rvd619323

More a comment on the length of his peak than an overseas record, TBH. One year of absolutely godly peak contrasted against a good, but not ATG, remainder of career.

Basically the path Clarke would be on if he reverts to being the batsman he was pre-captaincy, and finishes his career that way.

i think people under estimate how good and consistent MoYo was pre and post his peak. He only averaged below 40 twice in a calendar year.

[chaminda_00]

Originally Posted by stephen

This.

MoYo was a very good batsman. But to put him up in the same echelon as someone like Border or Richards would be a disservice to the others. Similarly, unless Clarke can continue at an average of 50+ for a few more years he'll only go down as a batsman who had a spectacular peak and was else-wise very good.

I wouldn't rate MoYo at the same level as Richards, his one of top 5 batsmen of all time. But I don't see a major difference in the records of MoYo, Waugh and Border. The only difference I can see is the countries that they played.

All three scored runs in all conditions. All three came in regularly at 2 or 3 for nothing and regular saved their teams.

[flibbertyjibber]

Originally Posted by Trichromatic

England will have tough time he continues his form.

I think both sides will be looking at the others captain with trepidation.

[Pothas]

If he dominates like this in England then we have a very speical player indeed.