Michael Clarke

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think it should be limited to numbers (such as your top 20 example) because as years go by players who were once in the top 20 players for Aus of all time, but then fall out because new great players come, don't become any less great.

Yeah exactly

 

[Zinzan]

I don't think it should be limited to numbers (such as your top 20 example) because as years go by players who were once in the top 20 players for Aus of all time, but then fall out because new great players come, don't become any less great.

Yeah, my point was more around people having a completely different take on how many cricketers would make their 'all-time great' list, rather than whether their number changes as time goes on.

Example, As much as I'm a huge fan of my countryman Martin Crowe's batting, I accept (even though I think he's much better than his record suggests ), that most would view him as one of the great batsmen of his era, but not quite in the 'great batsmen of all-time' category. Whereas Richard Hadlee is universally accepted an one of the 'great bowlers of all-time.

However others who use the term 'all-time great' tag more liberally may label a great of his era like Crowe to be an 'all-time' great'.

I'm was possibly being pedantic about Clarke being an 'all-time Aussie great', but I repeat, if someone limits their definition to say the Australia's top 20 players, he may struggle.

 

[Zinzan]

dont see how clarke isn't right in with mccabe and walters, if not better tbh

Walters from what he achieved in the 1960s & McCabe from what of read about him from various accounts.

 

[honestbharani]

We'd be bored if we'd won it five times too.

Added to that, I think we are just starting to get used to teams winning in home conditions all the time too... Surely, there has been a bit of a drop in quality of the cricket when teams are playing away, IMO...

 

[TheJediBrah]

Tbh we weren't all that excited in 2007 after winning the World Cup either. Maybe because it was just sort expected and we won every game without even being challenged. This year was sort of similar (despite the 1 good game against NZ) because we won all the major games pretty comfortably.

1999 was by far the biggest and most exciting because we hadn't won it since '87 and we scraped through a couple of stages and probably shouldn't have even made the final if not for Allan Donald's forgetting how to move from point A to point B.

Basically I agree with what OS has been saying

Added to that, I think we are just starting to get used to teams winning in home conditions all the time too... Surely, there has been a bit of a drop in quality of the cricket when teams are playing away, IMO...

This is true. Except South Africa it seems that all the big teams (Aus, Ind, SA) win all the time at home and lose away except against minnows (Ban, Zim, WI, NZ)

 

[Gob]

Walters from what he achieved in the 1960s & McCabe from what of read about him from various accounts.

And Clarke achieved nothing from 2007 to 2014 of course

People making old players automatically better than current players are equally annoying like those who think every one in the past are **** cos they didnt face Wasim's balls

 

[Zinzan]

And Clarke achieved nothing from 2007 to 2014 of course

Pointless post considering nobody said he didn't achieve much. We're debating Australia's very best group of batsmen of all-time here, not whether Clarke did well in that period.

People making old players automatically better than current players are equally annoying like those who think every one in the past are **** cos they didnt face Wasim's balls

Again, stupid post. Why must it be one or the other? Some older players are better than modern, and vice versa. I don't think I'm one to generally have a bias towards older players.tbh. I do have a special place for McCabe (because of what I've read about the guy, possibly Clarke is better) and in terms of Walters, you only need to look at his batting numbers in the 60s to realize just how good the guy was vs. his contemporaries.

 

[Flem274*]

you think fleming is a better test opener than mccullum so you do have a bias #shotsfired #whymustkiwisbringnzintoeverything

Clarke is one of Australia's top ten batsmen ever no question imo

 

[Zinzan]

#whymustkiwisbringnzintoeverything

Yup, WW-esque there.

 

[Zinzan]

An interesting question is whether he'd make most people's all-time Aust 2nd XI. I'm sure a few would have him in theirs.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm a **** and open with Bradman in my Aussie first XI because Australia have so many ATG middle order bats and a Keith Miller and plenty of world class but often not quite ATG openers so I put Bradman there. I think the "never play someone out of position" thing doesn't apply to cheat codes like The Don.

Plus it may or may not have a lot to do with wanting Ponting at #3.

But anyway Clarke is in my seconds. He may yet push Steve Waugh out of the firsts and be the Michael Clarke/Keith Miller swing vote I have for my #6.

 

[Hurricane]

He should bat first and try to get 402 and not declare until the 4th day. No one will criticize him in a dead rubber
Kidding

Fantastic player. Always thought that he would succeed even if Australia were in trouble. Like most people on cw will claim I tabbed him as something special long before his 300.

If one were picky you could claim he was a bit uncomfortable about 90mph deliveries right at his nose. But I am only putting that in there so pews will like my post for having a nuance

Fantastic temperament. In fact I would list that as his greatest strength.

What disturbed is how slow the Aussie contingent were to crown him as the greatest player in the world as they are a modest bunch. Once they realised there was him and daylight second they defended him to the hilt which was satisfying to see.

He did himself no favours with me for the James Anderson threat and had that been in North America there would have been a law suit somewhere and somehow over it.

Congrats on your career. Too good for regular test matches and needed to play at the next level up (against Mars obviously)

Auf Wiedersehen

 

[Flem274*]

what the **** did i just read?

 

[Zinzan]

Clarke is one of Australia's top ten batsmen ever no question imo

Not ruling him out of my top 10 without thinking about it further, but it would definitely be a huge question for me considering the following 10 bats off the top of my head;

Bradman
Trumper
G Chappell
Ponting
Harvey
Ponsford
S Waugh
Border
Morris
Walters

Not entirely sure who I'd drop for Clarke from the above, but I'd need to think about it. He certainly wouldn't be anywhere near my top 5.

And that's saying nothing about guys like Clem Hill and Hayden etc.

 

[Flem274*]

Hayden? Hayden??

 

[Zinzan]

Would probably rate Clarke > Hayden, just making the point that the likes of Hill & Hayden are outside my top 10.

If Clarke was to slip into my 10, it would one of the last positions.

 

[Hurricane]

what the **** did i just read?

Sorry I just assumed we would use this as a tribute thread?

 

[91Jmay]

This is true. Except South Africa it seems that all the big teams (Aus, Ind, SA) win all the time at home and lose away except against minnows (Ban, Zim, WI, NZ)

 

[Zinzan]

Lol, I'd missed the NZ minnow reference the first time.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

In 60 years how many series has India won in NZ? 2?
Life under the big 3 is very Orwellian - who needs truth and facts?