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Thread: Teen pace levels

  1. #1
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Teen pace levels

    So we've been having this conversation on cricsim. I am a pace bowler, and am coached by a guy who claims to have played a bit of pro cricket (although I can't find him on cricinfo/that cricket archive site thingy ) and has faced everything from your slowest plodders to the pace of the likes of Nantie Hayward (playing club).

    He reckons I'm around the 120ish mark, possibly 125ish given he was saying 120ish a while ago and I've since gained some speed.

    I'm 17, and have never played representative cricket at any age-group. I also haven't been fast-tracked into any pace programs, and a chap on cricsim reckons that if I bowled at the speeds my coach guesses me to, I'd certainly have at least had the latter happen to me. I was a spinner (not by choice) for the older years of my primary school career, and then moved to a non-sporty school (which meant I was bowling as the fourth or fifth bowler for 1sts in grade 8) and we played around school 4ths level.

    I'm certainly not the most accurate, and when bowling fast I don't get that much assistance in terms of swing.

    That all said, is my coach talking complete nonsense in estimating me to be a 120kph bowler, or is it possibly a fair call?

    Note: 120kph is around 70mph iirc.
    Note2: cricsimmer was skippos/sapientia/whatever else he's known as around here
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    International Coach Cabinet96's Avatar
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    I did a speed gun test last year when I was 15 and clocked around the 65mph mark (105kph) and I'm only considered reasonably sharp for my age in club cricket. I felt I could have bowled a bit quicker too.

    So being able to bowl 120kph (74.4mph) at 17 certainly isn't impossible. That said, you'd probably be one of the quickest 17 year olds I've faced.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Yeah, 120 isn't unreasonable. Cabinet is spot-on in terms of numbers in club cricket around here.

    I went to Cape Town with our school's U13 side last April, and we were clocked on a speed gun. The fastest bowler was 106kph (66mph), which was around about where I expected him to be. I was very pleased with 97kph (60mph).

    The fastest bowler in my club side to whom I stand up when required claims to have been clocked at 70mph (112kph), so it is worth remembering that if an average club keeper can stand up at that pace, it isn't all that quick, and wouldn't be enough to motivate a "pace program" or rep cricket here without control and other weaponry to go with it.
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    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    lack of pace is so depressing
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  5. #5
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    So we've been having this conversation on cricsim. I am a pace bowler, and am coached by a guy who claims to have played a bit of pro cricket (although I can't find him on cricinfo/that cricket archive site thingy ) and has faced everything from your slowest plodders to the pace of the likes of Nantie Hayward (playing club).

    He reckons I'm around the 120ish mark, possibly 125ish given he was saying 120ish a while ago and I've since gained some speed.

    I'm 17, and have never played representative cricket at any age-group. I also haven't been fast-tracked into any pace programs, and a chap on cricsim reckons that if I bowled at the speeds my coach guesses me to, I'd certainly have at least had the latter happen to me. I was a spinner (not by choice) for the older years of my primary school career, and then moved to a non-sporty school (which meant I was bowling as the fourth or fifth bowler for 1sts in grade 8) and we played around school 4ths level.

    I'm certainly not the most accurate, and when bowling fast I don't get that much assistance in terms of swing.

    That all said, is my coach talking complete nonsense in estimating me to be a 120kph bowler, or is it possibly a fair call?

    Note: 120kph is around 70mph iirc.
    Note2: cricsimmer was skippos/sapientia/whatever else he's known as around here
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    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    It's not impossible, but people are notoriously inaccurate when guessing pace with the naked eye. The only way to know is to get on the speed gun. If you're built a bit bigger than the average 17 year old then maybe. We were told a young bloke bowled 85 mph when I was playing in Devon...he didn't, wasn't even close.

    If you're 125ish now and you're 17 then you'd expect that you'd get up to around 135-140 if you develop in strength between now and when you're 22-23. There's a lot of young blokes around who are apparently 120ish, but we don't see so many guys in their early 20's who are 135-140, so something's going wrong somewhere.

    I don't know you though and have never seen you bowl, you may well be very fast.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 10-11-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    It's not impossible, but people are notoriously inaccurate when guessing pace with the naked eye. The only way to know is to get on the speed gun. If you're built a bit bigger than the average 17 year old then maybe. We were told a young bloke bowled 85 mph when I was playing in Devon...he didn't, wasn't even close.
    but you were in Devon, so all disappointments would be tempered by being in the gratest place on Earth.
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    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    but you were in Devon, so all disappointments would be tempered by being in the gratest place on Earth.
    Haha, that's a fair point. Although 'greatest' and 'strangest' are interchangeable...I was in Plymouth. Enough said.

    85mph is 136kph, he would've probably been the fastest bowler I've ever faced if that was the truth, but he wasn't even as fast as the blokes in our local club comp. He did have a good name for cricket though - Ollie Wicket. Unfortunately he didn't live up to his name and we passed their score at 1 down for 125.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 10-11-2012 at 06:51 PM.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Agree with So****, judging pace by the naked eye, most people over-estimate.

    Even then, 120Km/h for 17 isn't that unusual amongst grade cricketers. Your top speed isn't going to go up by massive amounts from 18 but if you want to play higher, it's definitely not about the raw pace unless you're really quick. Some guys can get away with it but they're rare. I watched at the SACA nets as Shaun Tait, at 17 (and with the coordination of a new-born giraffe), was clocked at 141Km/h so that tells you the sort of speed you need to be generating if you're going to play rep cricket relying on pace. And, Tait was well known for his swing at that stage as much as his pace.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 10-11-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    My typical rule is that if someone brags about how quick they are, then you can take 10mph off straight away...

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    School Boy/Girl Captain Eloquentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Agree with So****, judging pace by the naked eye, most people over-estimate.

    Even then, 120Km/h for 17 isn't that unusual amongst grade cricketers. Your top speed isn't going to go up by massive amounts from 18 but if you want to play higher, it's definitely not about the raw pace unless you're really quick. Some guys can get away with it but they're rare. I watched at the SACA nets as Shaun Tait, at 17 (and with the coordination of a new-born giraffe), was clocked at 141Km/h so that tells you the sort of speed you need to be generating if you're going to play rep cricket relying on pace. And, Tait was well known for his swing at that stage as much as his pace.
    Yeah - agree with a lot of this.

    I'll also add Prez that you claimed to be 125 hitting 130 occasionally, so you've tactically knocked 5 ks off for your post here

    I was one of the main sceptics on cricsim about Prez's claims - for a few reasons. One was that he'd posted a picture of him bowling and the keeper was a few metres back, at most. I've done a bit of keeping (a bit more recently, mind you) and I stand a few (~2-3) metres back to bowlers who bowl 105ish (relying on an estimate here mind you) and it carries comfortably to me on a decent deck.

    Another - and the major skepticism I had was he was languishing in ****ty school cricket without ever being identified or making age classifications. If you're 16 at the time and touching 130 - you'll rise the ranks even if you bowl with the accuracy of an 8 year old - tait did, for example. Heck, Tait tore apart international batting lineups bowling with the accuracy of an 8 year old.

    I mean, I've played and faced against some A grade bowlers in SA and they bowl around 115 - while I have seen a few kids bowl mighty fast, I just think it's highly uncommon and those who do get identified and play a lot of age class cricket/get specialist coaching.

    Also agree - people definitely overrate their speed... the gap between international and park cricket seam bowler speeds is a lot.

  12. #12
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    eloquentia. Nice.

    I have repeatedly admitted that the speed of the deliveries being bowled in the picture would be low - I was a swing-bowler back then bowling with a messed up run-up etc all with the purpose of getting swing, and the day was so windy I was struggling to reach the crease.

    I didn't claim to be a 130kph bowler. I claimed that, given I believe due to said coach that I am probably pushing 125kph normally, one session I bowled I was getting it out quicker than usual and it may have been pushing 130kph.

    I didn't just remove 5-10kph off the time I claimed on cricsim. If you read the opening post here, I said
    He reckons I'm around the 120ish mark, possibly 125ish given he was saying 120ish a while ago and I've since gained some speed.

  13. #13
    School Boy/Girl Captain Eloquentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    eloquentia. Nice.

    I have repeatedly admitted that the speed of the deliveries being bowled in the picture would be low - I was a swing-bowler back then bowling with a messed up run-up etc all with the purpose of getting swing, and the day was so windy I was struggling to reach the crease.

    I didn't claim to be a 130kph bowler. I claimed that, given I believe due to said coach that I am probably pushing 125kph normally, one session I bowled I was getting it out quicker than usual and it may have been pushing 130kph.

    I didn't just remove 5-10kph off the time I claimed on cricsim. If you read the opening post here, I said
    And I quote:

    Would love to get a speedball as I genuinely reckon I've gained 5-10kmph in the past few months. I know I'll get comments but genuinely reckon I'm pushing 130kph.
    Wasn't just referring to one session either - it was a broad statement.

    Anyway, the last thing I want to do is argue a technicality - especially on an issue where I can't prove I'm right !

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Start a thread on CricketWeb to argue about what you said on CS.

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  15. #15
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    That was after the practice that I felt I was possibly pushing 130 - hence 5-10kph because I felt like I'd been pushing 125kph before then, and that practise felt like I'd pushed a bit further - to 130kph. Since then you'll see I've been saying I reckon I'm 125kph or so - hence realising it was just one of those days you really get it going quickly.

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