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Worst specialist batsman of all time

Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Neil Pickup said:
Saleem Elahi, 6 ducks in 24 Test Innings, 436 runs @ 18.96
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But he's got a superb one-day record, at domestic and international level. Surely there must be some specialist batsmen who have failed (miserably) at both game-forms?
As for Dennis Amiss, fair enough maybe I took Kenny's words out of context and maybe it was just a joke but surely you can't say someone's a bad batsman because he had trouble with one bowler?
 
Neil Pickup

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
Richard said:
As for Dennis Amiss, fair enough maybe I took Kenny's words out of context and maybe it was just a joke but surely you can't say someone's a bad batsman because he had trouble with one bowler?
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Orignially posted by Kenny
Dennis Amiss (when facing Lillee)
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Where does he say that Amiss was a bad batsman? He says that Amiss couldn't play Lillee...
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Neil Pickup said:
Where does he say that Amiss was a bad batsman? He says that Amiss couldn't play Lillee...
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Like I say, maybe I took Kenny's words out of context and maybe it was just a joke.
 
A

anzac

International Debutant
Richard said:
For me the vote has to go to McCullum, he did play as a specialist batsman in his early ODIs despite a List-A average in the teens. OK, his First-Class average is in the 20s but that's still hardly impressive.
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yeah but IMO that has more to do with the arse about face selection of throwing him in as opener with very little F/C cricket under his belt, rather than his ability with the bat.

Also he was/is a wicket keeper/batsman, which is different to the situation where Cairns has been selected in the ODI side primarily as a specialist batsman - now there is a contender for the list as I don't recall a decent knock on those occaisions!

McCullum showed glimpses in the TVS Cup & it is interesting to note that in the current State Championship match Wellington v Canterbury he opened for Canterbury & scored 76 at a decent clip - signs of things to come perhaps?

Going by his debut Kenny Rutherford would have made the list - debut tour to WI thrown in as a 20 yr old to open in Tests resulting in no scores in double figures from memory and most of them ducks!!!!

My point being that we should wait until a player has some time under their belt b4 we judge their value as either batsman or bowler - it is easier to judge their worth once their career is well under way / over.

:)
 
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Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
In a months' time it will have been two years since his ODI debut.
That long enough for you? It's long enough for me.
 
A

anzac

International Debutant
Richard said:
In a months' time it will have been two years since his ODI debut.
That long enough for you? It's long enough for me.
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37 ODIs is enough to give an indication, but considering he is still in his early 20s and the possibility of being the Test 'keeper then I'd say it's not definative in his career. Also as I said he is a 'keeper / batsman, rather than a specialist batsman.

IMO you had a better arguement had you chosen Nevin, who has been selected as a specialist batsman since McCullum took over the gloves........

:)
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Nevin's 'keeping is almost more of a joke than his batting.
And personally I think Nevin is nothing close to ODI-standard with the bat, but nonetheless he has opened the innings and hit decent bowlers for runs (McGrath, Fleming, Gough, Caddick).
 
Craig

Craig

World Traveller
Dr Roy Park played oen Test for Australia in the 1920s lasted one ball. Story goes that his wife was doing some knitting, she dropped it and looked up and missed her husband's whole Test career.

Irishman Joesph McMaster who played one Test against South Africa at Cape Town in 1889 who also made his FC debut in that match made a duck and never played for England or any FC cricket again.

He never took a wicket (he never bowled) or took a catch.
 
A

anzac

International Debutant
Richard said:
Nevin's 'keeping is almost more of a joke than his batting.
And personally I think Nevin is nothing close to ODI-standard with the bat, but nonetheless he has opened the innings and hit decent bowlers for runs (McGrath, Fleming, Gough, Caddick).
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But again Nevin had his 'success' when selected as 'keeper / batsman & opened the innings...........since McCullum has taken over the gloves Nevin has been selected to open as a specialist batsman and done squat.............as I mentioned b4 I'd also question Cairns' contributions when picked as a specialist batsman.............

of your 4 bowlers only McGrath is a current starter in ODIs & Fleming has been out of the scene since b4 McCullum made his debut............

:)
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I wasn't particularly attempting to compare McCullum and Nevin, just saying Nevin has scored a few runs against good bowlers.
And can I make a point about this question in the thread: surely the issue is, if someone has been selected as a specialist batsmen for a few matches, they count, whether they have made runs while as a wicketkeeper\all-rouder or as a spec. bat.
Anyway, I don't think Nevin quite qualifies for worst specialist batsman I've seen. Remember, I've seen some county players!
 
A

anzac

International Debutant
Richard said:
I wasn't particularly attempting to compare McCullum and Nevin, just saying Nevin has scored a few runs against good bowlers.
And can I make a point about this question in the thread: surely the issue is, if someone has been selected as a specialist batsmen for a few matches, they count, whether they have made runs while as a wicketkeeper\all-rouder or as a spec. bat.
Anyway, I don't think Nevin quite qualifies for worst specialist batsman I've seen. Remember, I've seen some county players!
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But McCullum does??????????

any way we will have to agree to disagree (I'm doing that a lot at the moment), as IMO there is a BIIIGGG difference in being selected to open as a specialist bat, and opening when you are a 'keeper / batsman.

IMO McCullum would not have been in the side so soon if he had not been a 'keeper & was to be selected for his batting alone, which has yet to happen. Nevin was selected to open and did not 'keep - no 2nd function / skill to excuse him.

The reverse of your logic is that Dravid is the worst wicket keeper of all time - yet he is primarily there to bat.

:)
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
anzac said:
But McCullum does??????????

any way we will have to agree to disagree (I'm doing that a lot at the moment), as IMO there is a BIIIGGG difference in being selected to open as a specialist bat, and opening when you are a 'keeper / batsman.

IMO McCullum would not have been in the side so soon if he had not been a 'keeper & was to be selected for his batting alone, which has yet to happen. Nevin was selected to open and did not 'keep - no 2nd function / skill to excuse him.

The reverse of your logic is that Dravid is the worst wicket keeper of all time - yet he is primarily there to bat.

:)
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Yet with wicketkeepers it's a bit easier - you have a designated wicketkeeper. You can easily say "worst designated wicketkeeper ever", for which Dravid certainly qualifies.
McCullum was originally selected as a specialist batsman, I'm sure, he certainly played in The VB Series 2001\02 with Parore 'keeping and in three of the subsequent games against us with Nevin 'keeping.
And don't worry about agreeing to disagree all the time - we all do it, a lot.
 
A

anzac

International Debutant
Richard said:
Yet with wicketkeepers it's a bit easier - you have a designated wicketkeeper. You can easily say "worst designated wicketkeeper ever", for which Dravid certainly qualifies.
McCullum was originally selected as a specialist batsman, I'm sure, he certainly played in The VB Series 2001\02 with Parore 'keeping and in three of the subsequent games against us with Nevin 'keeping.
And don't worry about agreeing to disagree all the time - we all do it, a lot.
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I'm sure that Parore had 'retired' and that's how he got the call up, however my most humble apologies if you are correct re Parore & Nevin as I have no case to stand on.......

and as for the last.........:lol: :lol: :lol: :D ;)
 
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