Best Bowling All Rounder

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Well said guys. Between WSC, ROW XI, his seven test matches , and his extensive first class career he has done all be can do and performed at an exccedingly high level in all levels.

Apart from Test matches?

If we rate Procter at that level, where would we rate Vernon Philander? If he stopped playing cricket tomorrow, do we rate him as one of the greatest cricketers of all-time? What about Jack Cowie? Manny Martindale? Where's the limit?

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I think we are missing on a crucial point here. Others who had same amount of success as Procter at FC level didn't produce so much impact single handedly as Procter did. He lifted his team almost like no others with both ball and bat in hand. Also the quality of opposition that Procter ripped through often was high.

My conclusion is that although I have no doubt Procter would surpass everyone if he had played long time at highest level, to say he's the best bowling all rounder ever is kind of harsh on others who actually had success at highest level. Therefore, from practical POV, it's Imran for me and from dream POV, it's Procter.

 

[MrPrez]

If we are classing them in order of who the better players were as opposed to them in terms of bowling then batting,

Miller
Khan
Proctor
Hadlee
Botham
Dev

 

[smash84]

quite relevant here

Richie Benaud's Fantasy XI... All Rounders & Wicketkeeper - Part 3 - YouTube

 

[smash84]

heck...I am ordering meself this DVD on amazon

 

[kyear2]

I downloaded it earlier this year. A bit biased, but it was his list.

 

[smash84]

did you download it for free?

 

[Howe_zat]

Apart from Test matches?

If we rate Procter at that level, where would we rate Vernon Philander? If he stopped playing cricket tomorrow, do we rate him as one of the greatest cricketers of all-time? What about Jack Cowie? Manny Martindale? Where's the limit?

You might have to do something outright mental like develop an opinion

 

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You might have to do something outright mental like develop an opinion

 

[kyear2]

did you download it for free?

The Benaud All Time XI, yea.

 

[watson]

OK. Reality bites - Imran it is, if only to keep Smali quiet.

(But intuition still shouts Procter at me)

 

[kyear2]

Agree, but intrigued by the potential of Procter, also just not fully convinced of how good a batsman Imran was in his bowling prime.

 

[Bahnz]

Precisely how do we define a bowling all rounder? I presume sustained bowling performances take precedence over batting achievements. In which case, Hadlee could be close as he took more wickets, and averaged more wickets per game than any of the other bowlers in this list, whilst still being a useful addition to the middle-order...

Ok, that's probably just my kiwi bias coming through. Looking at things dispassionately, Imran's batting achievements outweigh the slight edge that Hadlee has over him as a bowler.

 

[vic_orthdox]

If I had to choose an 8, I think I'd take Hadlee. If the player we are choosing had to go at 7, I'd have more faith in Imran, who I rate as an ever so slightly inferior bowler to Hadlee.

 

[Valer]

Precisely how do we define a bowling all rounder? I presume sustained bowling performances take precedence over batting achievements. In which case, Hadlee could be close as he took more wickets, and averaged more wickets per game than any of the other bowlers in this list, whilst still being a useful addition to the middle-order...

Ok, that's probably just my kiwi bias coming through. Looking at things dispassionately, Imran's batting achievements outweigh the slight edge that Hadlee has over him as a bowler.

I'm not from NZ and I'd take Hadlee first. The bowling diffrence isn't negligble and I don't think a bowling allrounder at 7 is ideal for team balance.

Eta: Captiancy ect. concerns may tip it the other way to be fair.

 

[bagapath]

Imran and Hadlee are the best bowlers in this list. Even if they had averaged 4 with the bat, they would have made it to their teams coz their bowling was in the mcgrath/ambrose/donald league. But they did not and that is what makes them legends. Since Imran also happens to be among the best batsmen in the given list (behind miller and botham and on par with kapil), he should be the first choice among these champs. Any cricketer who can take 4 wkts/test at 22 and also average 37 with the bat must be a certainty in an AT XI. And there happens to be only one such cricketer in history.

 

[watson]

Agree, but intrigued by the potential of Procter, also just not fully convinced of how good a batsman Imran was in his bowling prime.

Looking at Imran's 'Bowling Career Summary' I selected 1980 to 1986 as his 'best bowling years';

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Plug those 6 years into Statsguru and you get;

1/1/1980 to 31/12/1986
Runs = 1423
Batting Average = 37.44
Highest Score = 123
Centuries = 2

Wickets = 184
Bowling Average = 15.92
Strike Rate = 42.2
5/ = 14
10/ = 3

It appears that your scepticism is misplaced kyear2. Imran's Batting Average during his prime as a bowler is almost identical to his overall Batting Average.

Note: Could someone confirm that Bowling Average for me as 15.92 is outrageous.

 

[smash84]

OK. Reality bites - Imran it is, if only to keep Smali quiet.

(But intuition still shouts Procter at me)

haha....dude, form your own opinion.

Hadlee was a better bowler IMO (marginally though) but the difference between his and Imran's batting ability was much more than the difference in their bowling.

The only reason I don't rate Procter as highly is because he didn't play much test cricket. End of.....

 

[watson]

haha....dude, form your own opinion.

Hadlee was a better bowler IMO (marginally though) but the difference between his and Imran's batting ability was much more than the difference in their bowling.

The only reason I don't rate Procter as highly is because he didn't play much test cricket. End of.....

The thing about Hadlee is that he was awesome from about 1974 all the way through to 1990 which is incredible. The only blips appear to be apart a couple of Tests in 1977 and again in 1989. In other words, he hit his peak after Year 1, then pretty much stayed there.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[smash84]

Looking at Imran's 'Bowling Career Summary' I selected 1980 to 1986 as his 'best bowling years';

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Plug those 6 years into Statsguru and you get;

1/1/1980 to 31/12/1986
Runs = 1423
Batting Average = 37.44
Highest Score = 123
Centuries = 2

Wickets = 184
Bowling Average = 15.92
Strike Rate = 42.2
5/ = 14
10/ = 3

It appears that your scepticism is misplaced kyear2. Imran's Batting Average during his prime as a bowler is almost identical to his overall Batting Average.

Note: Could someone confirm that Bowling Average for me as 15.92 is outrageous.

This bowling average is correct for this period.

I think Imran had the best bowling average of all bowlers for the decade of the 1980s who took more than 150 wickets. He edged out Hadlee and Marshall at 2 and 3 respectively IIRC.