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Thread: Australian ATG Team- Open Voting

  1. #46
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    The lists I post are suggestions. Feel free to suggest other players, and anything legit will be added to the list. I know people get sick of these threads, and that's fair enough, but imo the point is to discuss the merits of players, which I find pretty interested. I enjoy learning about players from eras gone.
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  2. #47
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doesitmatter View Post
    Simpson and Taylor..big fan of Mark Taylor..awesome in every sense..Opening,Captaincy, Slip Fielding and Classy Guy....
    Yes. That's why I plumped for Taylor. Under rated opener - he had an immense record for tons in the first test of a series (especially early on), but obviously his long lean patch has him overlooked by most. Add to that his incredible hands at first slip and his brilliant captaincy I think he brings so much to the table that he'd have the (c) in my ATG side.

    But, obviously Simmo brings arguably equal to the side. I'd be happy with either, but I don't think you could have both. For me Tubby's leadership swings it.

    I reckon theoretically Trumper would gel with Taylor much like Slater did (only better).

  3. #48
    U19 12th Man Camo999's Avatar
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    Trumper & Morris for me

    Would also like to mention Boon who I'd actually rate ahead of Taylor, Slater, Langer.

  4. #49
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    Yes. That's why I plumped for Taylor. Under rated opener - he had an immense record for tons in the first test of a series (especially early on), but obviously his long lean patch has him overlooked by most. Add to that his incredible hands at first slip and his brilliant captaincy I think he brings so much to the table that he'd have the (c) in my ATG side.

    But, obviously Simmo brings arguably equal to the side. I'd be happy with either, but I don't think you could have both. For me Tubby's leadership swings it.

    I reckon theoretically Trumper would gel with Taylor much like Slater did (only better).
    I loved Taylor as a player and captain - I think he was the best tactician we've had certainly since Ian Chappell (though both had great attacks to work with).

    I considered putting him in the side but remembered he calls John Howard a friend, and therefore he lacks judgment and any moral compass. Not fit for inclusion.
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  5. #50
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    Excluding those 18 or so months where Tubby was a walking wicket, he really did bring a calmness and assurance to our batting lineup. I used to like watching his technique during the bowlers run up, just think it was such an easy, classic technique which enabled him to judge the line of the ball perfectly.

    On pure batting alone he doesn't make my All Time XI, but when you factor in superb slips catching and captaincy I can the reasoning behind his selection.

  6. #51
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Captaincy is an interesting point to consider. What are the vitals of captaincy, besides winning the toss?

    - field placement
    - timing of declarations
    - ability with leading people

    Having two or three great bowlers in your line up helps immensely!
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  7. #52
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    I considered putting him in the side but remembered he calls John Howard a friend, and therefore he lacks judgment and any moral compass. Not fit for inclusion.
    I can't fault that, but I'm prepared to overlook most failings this side of the boundary fence for what they can achieve in the middle.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Captaincy is an interesting point to consider. What are the vitals of captaincy, besides winning the toss?

    - field placement
    - timing of declarations
    - ability with leading people

    Having two or three great bowlers in your line up helps immensely!
    The ability to hold interesting press conferences.
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  9. #54
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Captaincy is an interesting point to consider. What are the vitals of captaincy, besides winning the toss?

    - field placement
    - timing of declarations
    - ability with leading people

    Having two or three great bowlers in your line up helps immensely!
    Tubby was brilliant at using his second and third stringers. It wasn't just 'chuck it to Warney or Pidge'. I used to love the way when nothing was doing he'd chuck it to Blewitt or even Ponting and bang broken partnership. Clarke looks like he's developing the same happy knack. I think Taylor was able to squeeze every last drop out of his team in a way few others have. Maybe didn't have the win at all costs drive of Tugga, but had a wonderful feel for the game and how to use what he had to find a way to take wickets.

  10. #55
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    Mark Taylor win in Westindies inflicting their first home series loss was with following bowlers..Warne, McGrath(new to the international scene), Reiffel and Julian..so it was not like he had great bowlers he could call on other than Warne..

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    Yes. That's why I plumped for Taylor. Under rated opener - he had an immense record for tons in the first test of a series (especially early on), but obviously his long lean patch has him overlooked by most. Add to that his incredible hands at first slip and his brilliant captaincy I think he brings so much to the table that he'd have the (c) in my ATG side.

    But, obviously Simmo brings arguably equal to the side. I'd be happy with either, but I don't think you could have both. For me Tubby's leadership swings it.

    I reckon theoretically Trumper would gel with Taylor much like Slater did (only better).
    Considered 3 players to partner Taylor (he is always going to be there in my team )..1) Morris 2) Lawry 3) Bob Simpson..Went with Simpson because of left-right hand combination opening the batting..Completely agree Trumper would have been the right choice..

  12. #57
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Here are the centuries scored by Arthur Morris;

    206 V Eng – Adelaide 1951 (Bedser, Warr, Wright, Tattersall)
    196 V Eng – The Oval 1948 (Bedser, Watkins, Young, Hollies)
    182 V Eng – Leeds 1948 (Bedser, Pollard, Cranston, Laker, Yardley)
    157 V SA – Port Elizabeth 1950 (McCarthy, Melle, Tayfield, Mann)
    155 V Eng – MCG 1947 (Voce, Bedser, Wright, Yardley)
    153 V Eng – Brisbane 1954 (Bedser, Statham, Tyson, Bailey, Edrich)
    124 V Eng – Adelaide 1947 (Bedser, Edrich, Wright, Yardley)
    122 V Eng – Adelaide 1947 (Bedser, Edrich, Wright, Yardley)
    111 V SA – Jo’burg 1950 (McCarthy, Melle, Tayfield, Mann)
    111 V WI – Port of Spain 1955 (Butler, King, Ramadhin, Valentine, Sobers)
    105 V Eng – Lords 1948 (Bedser, Coxon, Wright, Laker, Yardley)
    100 V India – MCG 1948 (Phadkar, Amarnath, Hazare, Mankad)

    What I learn from this list is that Arthur Morris flourished against ordinary attacks from 1947-48 when English cricket was still recovering from the war. Indeed, 7/12 of his centuries were scored against ageing/inexperienced attacks. No wonder Alec Bedser took his wicket so many times, he was the only bowler of note for much of Morris's career. In my estimation the only century to write home about is the one made against England in 1954. Bedser, Tyson, Statham, Bailey, and Edrich does seem like a good attack.

    If it wasn't for the relatively weak attacks of 1947/48 Arthur Morris would be averaging in the mid-30s. In my opinion this average is a true indication of his ability as an opening batsman. I get the feeling that we have all been duped by Bradman's hyper-inflated rhetoric.

    Ergo, in comparison, the 'quality' of runs made by Bill Lawry is significantly better. Centuries made against Hall, Griffith, Trueman, Statham, Pollock, Goddard, Snow and Underwood, and so forth, are all gold tier.
    Last edited by watson; 18-10-2012 at 07:39 PM.

  13. #58
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Here are the centuries scored by Arthur Morris;

    206 V Eng – Adelaide 1951 (Bedser, Warr, Wright, Tattersall)
    196 V Eng – The Oval 1948 (Bedser, Watkins, Young, Hollies)
    182 V Eng – Leeds 1948 (Bedser, Pollard, Cranston, Laker, Yardley)
    157 V SA – Port Elizabeth 1950 (McCarthy, Melle, Tayfield, Mann)
    155 V Eng – MCG 1947 (Voce, Bedser, Wright, Yardley)
    153 V Eng – Brisbane 1954 (Bedser, Statham, Tyson, Bailey, Edrich)
    124 V Eng – Adelaide 1947 (Bedser, Edrich, Wright, Yardley)
    122 V Eng – Adelaide 1947 (Bedser, Edrich, Wright, Yardley)
    111 V SA – Jo’burg 1950 (McCarthy, Melle, Tayfield, Mann)
    111 V WI – Port of Spain 1955 (Butler, King, Ramadhin, Valentine, Sobers)
    105 V Eng – Lords 1948 (Bedser, Coxon, Wright, Laker, Yardley)
    100 V India – MCG 1948 (Phadkar, Amarnath, Hazare, Mankad)

    What I learn from this list is that Arthur Morris flourished against ordinary attacks from 1947-48 when English cricket was still recovering from the war. Indeed, 7/12 of his centuries were scored against ageing/inexperienced attacks. No wonder Alec Bedser took his wicket so many times, he was the only bowler of note for much of Morris's career. In my estimation the only century to write home about is the one made against England in 1954. Bedser, Tyson, Statham, Bailey, and Edrich does seem like a good attack.

    If it wasn't for the relatively weak attacks of 1947/48 Arthur Morris would be averaging in the mid-30s. In my opinion this average is a true indication of his ability as an opening batsman. I get the feeling that we have all been duped by Bradman's hyper-inflated rhetoric.

    Ergo, in comparison, the 'quality' of runs made by Bill Lawry is significantly better. Centuries made against Hall, Griffith, Trueman, Statham, Pollock, Goddard, Snow and Underwood, and so forth, are all gold tier.
    Great work Watson. Interesting reaearch and gives us a totally new perspective on the comparrison between the two players. Are your opnions on Hayden similar?
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  14. #59
    State Vice-Captain JBMAC's Avatar
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    Morris and Simpson
    Keep Your Feet on The Ground,Keep Reaching for The Stars!

  15. #60
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Here are the centuries scored by Arthur Morris;

    206 V Eng – Adelaide 1951 (Bedser, Warr, Wright, Tattersall)
    196 V Eng – The Oval 1948 (Bedser, Watkins, Young, Hollies)
    182 V Eng – Leeds 1948 (Bedser, Pollard, Cranston, Laker, Yardley)
    157 V SA – Port Elizabeth 1950 (McCarthy, Melle, Tayfield, Mann)
    155 V Eng – MCG 1947 (Voce, Bedser, Wright, Yardley)
    153 V Eng – Brisbane 1954 (Bedser, Statham, Tyson, Bailey, Edrich)
    124 V Eng – Adelaide 1947 (Bedser, Edrich, Wright, Yardley)
    122 V Eng – Adelaide 1947 (Bedser, Edrich, Wright, Yardley)
    111 V SA – Jo’burg 1950 (McCarthy, Melle, Tayfield, Mann)
    111 V WI – Port of Spain 1955 (Butler, King, Ramadhin, Valentine, Sobers)
    105 V Eng – Lords 1948 (Bedser, Coxon, Wright, Laker, Yardley)
    100 V India – MCG 1948 (Phadkar, Amarnath, Hazare, Mankad)

    What I learn from this list is that Arthur Morris flourished against ordinary attacks from 1947-48 when English cricket was still recovering from the war. Indeed, 7/12 of his centuries were scored against ageing/inexperienced attacks. No wonder Alec Bedser took his wicket so many times, he was the only bowler of note for much of Morris's career. In my estimation the only century to write home about is the one made against England in 1954. Bedser, Tyson, Statham, Bailey, and Edrich does seem like a good attack.

    If it wasn't for the relatively weak attacks of 1947/48 Arthur Morris would be averaging in the mid-30s. In my opinion this average is a true indication of his ability as an opening batsman. I get the feeling that we have all been duped by Bradman's hyper-inflated rhetoric.

    Ergo, in comparison, the 'quality' of runs made by Bill Lawry is significantly better. Centuries made against Hall, Griffith, Trueman, Statham, Pollock, Goddard, Snow and Underwood, and so forth, are all gold tier.
    Pretty sure some bowlers confidence and average would have been dented bowling to the likes of Bradman, Morris etc. Look at some of the players first class records. Its no surprise people don't rate them any more. I refuse to believe that Morris 206 wasn't a superb knock.

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