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Thread: Australian ATG Team- Open Voting

  1. #181
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    I don't think the difference between a batsman averaging 40 and a batsman averaging 50 is ten runs an inning.

    I don't have the statistical analysis back it up but I think the difference would more mean that the 50 run guy would score a ton in every tenth inning - while in that same inning the 40 run guy would get a duck.

    This could make a major difference to a series.
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  2. #182
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I don't think the difference between a batsman averaging 40 and a batsman averaging 50 is ten runs an inning.

    I don't have the statistical analysis back it up but I think the difference would more mean that the 50 run guy would score a ton in every tenth inning - while in that same inning the 40 run guy would get a duck.

    This could make a major difference to a series.
    It depends on consistency. Douglas Jardine never hit a Test match century but averaged a healthy 48 runs because his scores have a low Coefficient of Variation.

    Incidently, the Kiwi Mark Richardson is the most consistent batsman in history according to this study. Vinoo Mankad is the worst;

    It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

    (Unfortunately Miller is not on the list. Might work out his CoV if I get the time)
    PRE WWI
    Grace-Trumper-Hill-Taylor-Ranjitsinhji-Faulkner-Noble-Lilley-Turner-Richardson-Barnes
    PRE WWII
    Hobbs-Sutcliffe-Bradman-Hammond-Headley-Macartney-Ames-Gregory-Larwood-O'Reilly-Grimmett
    POST WWII
    Hutton-Simpson-Kanhai-Pollock-Harvey-Sobers-Waite-Benaud-Davidson-Lindwall-Trueman
    PACKER ERA
    Gavaskar-Greenidge-Richards-Chappell-Lloyd-Botham-Imran-Knott-Lillee-Holding-Underwood
    MODERN ERA
    Hayden-Langer-Ponting-Tendulkar-Lara-Kallis-Gilchrist-Marshall-Warne-Ambrose-McGrath

  3. #183
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Miller's Coefficient of Variation (Standard Deviation divided by the mean) is 0.9905 which isn't bad apparently.

    This puts him on a par with Donald Bradman (0.991), better than Brian Lara (1.205), but worse than Kevin Pietersen (0.978) and Mark Richardson (0.823) who is a statistical legend.

    What I did find confusing is that Miller's real average is 34.00. However, his average is officially listed as 36.97. I assume that this has something to do with the Not Outs. I divided the Standard Deviation by 36.97.

  4. #184
    State Vice-Captain JBMAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Similar to the Bradman slot this is a no contest, think we can call this one. Gilchrist was probably the best Australian cricketer after Bradman and the key to this and the 90's Australia's team success. Balance and destruction and a very under rated gloveman.
    You haven,t watched a lot of cricket have you? That,s a very misguided broad statement to make.
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  5. #185
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMAC View Post
    You haven,t watched a lot of cricket have you? That,s a very misguided broad statement to make.
    Why? Because he rates a player that debuted after 1930?

    I think it's a call which is pretty close to spot on given the impact Gilchrist has had on the game.
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  6. #186
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    I sometimes get the impression that the reputations of Don Tallon, Arthur Morris, and Clarrie Grimmett have been inflated by Don Bradman's opinion.

    What is truth and what is 'propaganda' I'm not sure.

  7. #187
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMAC View Post
    You haven,t watched a lot of cricket have you? That,s a very misguided broad statement to make.
    Watched quite a lot actually. Chappell was a great batsman, but wasn't even the best of his era, Warne as great a player he was is over rated with regard to his influence on the game. Gilchrist changed the role of the keeper batsman, his batting provided not only balance to the Australian team, thatg allowed them to play around with team make up, but provided that fear that even when you made it past the top order that he was still there and could tear an attack apart. He kept masterfully to Warne and the fast men and just as importantly played the game the way it should be played. My top five players of All Time would be.
    Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs and Gilchrist.
    1st XI
    Hutton | Hobbs | Bradman* | Richards^ | Tendulkar | Sobers5^ | Gilchrist+ | Khan3 | Marshall1 | Warne4^ | McGrath2
    2nd XI
    Sutcliffe | Gavaskar* | Headley | Chappell^ | Lara^ | Kallis5^ | Knott+ | Hadlee3 | Ambrose2 | Lillee1 | Muralitharan4
    3rd XI
    Greenidge | Richards^ | Ponting^ | Pollock | Hammond^ | Worrell5* | Waite+ | Akram3 | Steyn1 | Holding2 | O'Reilly4
    4th XI
    Morris | Simpson^ | Sangakkara | Weekes^ | Border*^ | Walcott+ | Faulkner5 | Laker4 | Trueman1 | Garner3 | Donald2

  8. #188
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Why? Because he rates a player that debuted after 1930?
    lol gramps gonna give it to you for that boy
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  9. #189
    Dan
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    Gilchrist.

    He was a more than capable gloveman, and with Miller in the top 6, he provides added batting depth.
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    *Quote may or may not read differently in context.

  10. #190
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Watched quite a lot actually. Chappell was a great batsman, but wasn't even the best of his era, Warne as great a player he was is over rated with regard to his influence on the game. Gilchrist changed the role of the keeper batsman, his batting provided not only balance to the Australian team, thatg allowed them to play around with team make up, but provided that fear that even when you made it past the top order that he was still there and could tear an attack apart. He kept masterfully to Warne and the fast men and just as importantly played the game the way it should be played. My top five players of All Time would be.
    Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs and Gilchrist.
    Close to the perfect post I reckon. Would debate Marshall and Hobbs, but not to the death.

    Gilly at 7 was something unimagined previously. It wasn't just that he could score big. It was that he could score big and fast and do it so often. Could take an opposition from match winning position to dead and buried in a session. Superb gloveman, adventurous captain when called on, and peerless ambassador for the game to boot. No contest. Second man named on the sheet after the Don.

  11. #191
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Watched quite a lot actually. Chappell was a great batsman, but wasn't even the best of his era, Warne as great a player he was is over rated with regard to his influence on the game. Gilchrist changed the role of the keeper batsman, his batting provided not only balance to the Australian team, thatg allowed them to play around with team make up, but provided that fear that even when you made it past the top order that he was still there and could tear an attack apart. He kept masterfully to Warne and the fast men and just as importantly played the game the way it should be played. My top five players of All Time would be.
    Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs and Gilchrist.
    Who do you rate higher than Chappell from that era? Viv?

  12. #192
    International Captain kingkallis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I sometimes get the impression that the reputations of Don Tallon, Arthur Morris, and Clarrie Grimmett have been inflated by Don Bradman's opinion.

    What is truth and what is 'propaganda' I'm not sure.
    Yeah I'll never understand how Morris got a spot ahead of Hayden. People somehow dont like the most dashing and attacking Aussie opener.

    My opinions are always biased towards the players who played in our era ( 1980+ ) but thats cause I myself witnessed them playing against the top bowling attacks and bowling against the finest batters across the globe.
    CricZo XI - Draft League

    Season 1 M Hayden, G Gooch, R Dravid, W Hammond, K Pietersen, G Sobers, R Marsh (wk), R Benaud (c), D Steyn, W Hall, N Adcock

    Season 2 J Hobbs, B Richards, D Boon, H Taylor, C Lloyd (c), A Stewart (wk), T Goddard, A Davidson, H Tayfield, C Ambrose, H Griffith

    Season 3 H Sutcliffe, M Hayden, I Chappell (c), G Pollock, A Faulkner, M Hussey, D Lindsay (wk), I Botham, A Kumble, M Marshall, D Lillee

  13. #193
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkallis View Post
    Yeah I'll never understand how Morris got a spot ahead of Hayden. People somehow dont like the most dashing and attacking Aussie opener.

    My opinions are always biased towards the players who played in our era ( 1980+ ) but thats cause I myself witnessed them playing against the top bowling attacks and bowling against the finest batters across the globe.
    Weight of numbers tilt things in Hayden's favour IMO. 8625 at 50.73 is huge.

    Also, only Bradman has a better innings-to-century ratio, and of all the batsman with more 6000 runs, only Hayden, Bradman, and Azharuddin have scored more centuries than half-centuries.

    However, it is a shame that Hayden's run scoring spree didn't coincide with the careers of Ambrose/Walsh, Wasim/Waqar, and Donald. It would have been nice to see him tested a bit more against quality quicks.

    I also remember the 2005 series well where he had significant problems against the swing bowling of Hoggard. Hoggard has dismissed him 6 times;

    HowSTAT! Player Dismissal Analysis

    Therefore, in an ATG Test series I 'm not sure how he would go against Bedser, Tate, and Mahmood as they were probably superior to Hoggard.

    Having said that, I'd still rather have Hayden in my team than Morris - just.

  14. #194
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    the reality is hayden will always be looked down upon, justly or not.
    Indians can't bowl - Where has the rumour come from as I myself and many indian friends arwe competent fast bowlers ?

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  15. #195
    International Captain The Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    It depends on consistency. Douglas Jardine never hit a Test match century but averaged a healthy 48 runs because his scores have a low Coefficient of Variation.

    Incidently, the Kiwi Mark Richardson is the most consistent batsman in history according to this study. Vinoo Mankad is the worst;

    It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

    (Unfortunately Miller is not on the list. Might work out his CoV if I get the time)
    Yes he did - a rather celebrated one where the West Indians tried to give him a taste of his own medicine by bowling bodyline, and he defied them unflinchingly.
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