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Thread: ***Official*** South Africa in Australia 2012

  1. #2536
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruckus View Post
    Yeah ftr Butterworth's best ground is Adelaide. Has 28 wickets at 16.46 there.
    He'd average at least double that if he had to bowl to Victoria there rather than South Australia though.

    Big fan of Butterworth, but debut Test at Adelaide? Nah.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Everyone's best ground is Adelaide (except those playing for SA).
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    Speaking of cw anecdotes, as i've been overseas for a while i've missed out on a lot of gossip. Today I caught up with an old friend for lunch. Turns out Peter Siddle's new girlfriend is a friend of mine from back home. Can confirm she's a vego ftr.
    Last edited by benchmark00; 13-11-2012 at 11:30 PM.
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    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Starc will play next game. It will have nothing to do with being in the top XI. But everything to do with bowler rotation. Johnson will also play at the WACA and it will have nothing to do with being in the top XI and all down to bowler rotation. Australia won't play the same 4 bowlers in back to back tests this summer.

    Watch this space for sports science picking XIs and bowler rotation to the max this summer.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Friendzoned for this handsome devil of a man?



    Yeeouch. Wouldn't eat your meat either, to be fair.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 13-11-2012 at 11:33 PM.

  6. #2541
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    He'd average at least double that if he had to bowl to Victoria there rather than South Australia though.

    Big fan of Butterworth, but debut Test at Adelaide? Nah.
    He averages 16.92 at the MCG.

    Don't get the hate for Butterworth frankly. I'm not just spewing out stats here, he's probably the bowler I've seen the most of in shield cricket in recent years, and I don't understand why people think he is so mediocre. Yeah he doesn't bowl much more than 130, but aside from that (it was what Hilf and Siddle were bowling last test anyway ha) he gets the basics right. His lines/lengths are usually impeccable, and often gets a good amount of movement from the pitch. He doesn't have much variation, but that's not the kind of bowler he is. If Hilf continues to bowl 130, then I don't see why as a direct substitution it isn't just better in every regard (including his batting).

  7. #2542
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Yeeouch. Wouldn't eat your meat either, to be fair.
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    I just love all kinds of balls.

  8. #2543
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    Global Moderator / Cricket Web Staff Member Dan's Avatar
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    Thoughts on Jackson Bird?

    Doubt he's worth a go at present, however he's had a gun start to his FC career, moves the ball and seems to have put on an added yard of pace this season.

  9. #2544
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Yeah wouldn't mind seeing Bird get a go either.

    I haven't seen that much of Starc in the last year (only a little bit of limited overs stuff), but I still have doubts his consistency is where it needs to be. In all of the longer format domestic stuff in that time period (the current shield match included) he really hasn't done much of note at all (and has often had a poor economy). There's no doubt that he can produce some magic every now and again, and that probably goes a long way as an indication of his potential down the line, but if the wicket is very flat how do people really think he will fare?

  10. #2545
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Don't mind Bird but Starc is definitely ahead at the minute and should be.

  11. #2546
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruckus View Post
    He averages 16.92 at the MCG.
    Yep; the MCG is a good bowling deck in Shield cricket. If he had to play against that batting lineup in Adelaide though he'd been average at best, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruckus View Post
    Don't get the hate for Butterworth frankly. I'm not just spewing out stats here, he's probably the bowler I've seen the most of in shield cricket in recent years, and I don't understand why people think he is so mediocre. Yeah he doesn't bowl much more than 130, but aside from that (it was what Hilf and Siddle were bowling last test anyway ha) he gets the basics right. His lines/lengths are usually impeccable, and often gets a good amount of movement from the pitch. He doesn't have much variation, but that's not the kind of bowler he is. If Hilf continues to bowl 130, then I don't see why as a direct substitution it isn't just better in every regard (including his batting).
    Being accused of "Butterworth hate" is a new one for me. I don't reckon you'll find anyone on the forum (other than yourself, evidently) who rates the bloke more than I do, out of those who actually watch Shield cricket anyway. If you go have a gander at the pecking order thread I listed him pretty high, and I think he should be in the general Test frame, especially for some of the overseas Tests. Picking him in Adelaide (especially on debut) would be absurd though, frankly.

    Again I don't want to mix up the formats of the game too much, and that's definitely not usually my go, but chaminda is right when he says the fact that Butterworth can't even get a game for Tasmania in one day cricket because the decks are better is telling. Yes, his skillset is better-suited to four day cricket than one day cricket in general, but the Test pitches are more like the Ryobi Cup pitches than the Shield pitches, so when Tasmania's hierarchy rightly rule him out because of those decks, it's worrying. More than anything I actually think it'd be grossly unfair to a guy who I think we should be considering for tours to England and South Africa to have his career ruined by an inevitable toothless Adelaide debut.

  12. #2547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Has "CW wags" just become a codeword for Cribb or something? Who else hrere actually thinks Cutting is ****?
    i'm a strong believer he gets wickets though ****ty batsmen who can't handle his pace, which isn't that great. (tim cruickshank, tailenders)
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  13. #2548
    International Captain Ruckus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yep; the MCG is a good bowling deck in Shield cricket. If he had to play against that batting lineup in Adelaide though he'd been average at best, IMO.



    Being accused of "Butterworth hate" is a new one for me.
    I don't reckon you'll find anyone on the forum (other than yourself, evidently) who rates the bloke more than I do, out of those who actually watch Shield cricket anyway. If you go have a gander at the pecking order thread I listed him pretty high, and I think he should be in the general Test frame, especially for some of the overseas Tests. Picking him in Adelaide (especially on debut) would be absurd though, frankly.

    Again I don't want to mix up the formats of the game too much, and that's definitely not usually my go, but chaminda is right when he says the fact that Butterworth can't even get a game for Tasmania in one day cricket because the decks are better is telling. Yes, his skillset is better-suited to four day cricket than one day cricket in general, but the Test pitches are more like the Ryobi Cup pitches than the Shield pitches, so when Tasmania's hierarchy rightly rule him out because of those decks, it's worrying. More than anything I actually think it'd be grossly unfair to a guy who I think we should be considering for tours to England and South Africa to have his career ruined by an inevitable toothless Adelaide debut.
    I didn't mean that at you btw. Don't see why it would be absurd for him to debut at Adelaide, because part of the reason I think he would be a good addition is the balance he adds. At worst he would probably hold up an end and build some pressure. If Hilf continues to bowl how he was though, he isn't providing strike power or building pressure despite his good economy (it's closer to how he was a year or two ago). I don't think a potential lack of 'options' would be that much of a concern either if Watson can bowl. Fair point about it maybe not be great for his prospective test career, although at this stage it looks like he might be a no-test wonder anyway so...
    Last edited by Ruckus; 14-11-2012 at 12:24 AM.

  14. #2549
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    When Mackay and Kline famously resisted the West Indies for the last session at Adelaide in 1960-61, one of the criticisms leveled at the visitors was that because they were so concerned at bowling as many overs as possible in the remaining time, they failed to actually bowl their best bowlers as often as they might have.
    Didn't that also happen at Cardiff in 2009?
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
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