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Thread: ***Official*** England in India

  1. #9661
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    A vote is due on 29th/30th January on DRS. Chief executives committee which has Chief executive of each board has suggested it for the 2nd time now, but the executive board which has Chairmen of each board backs off.

  2. #9662
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    A vote is due on 29th/30th January on DRS. Chief executives committee which has Chief executive of each board has suggested it for the 2nd time now, but the executive board which has Chairmen of each board backs off.
    The problem with the latest plan is that it's "DRS for a series if the home board wants it." Which means that Tests in India will still be played under different conditions to the rest of the world.

  3. #9663
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    Its good to win a match without a big help from the skipper for a change.

  4. #9664
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    At least it's progress. Will be a problem for the Indian team in getting used to it, so BCCI might have to accept it later. i.e if it can't get the other boards to go back on it again.
    Last edited by Cevno; 19-01-2013 at 12:23 PM.


  5. #9665
    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    The problem with the latest plan is that it's "DRS for a series if the home board wants it." Which means that Tests in India will still be played under different conditions to the rest of the world.
    Yep, it's complete bollocks - there can't be a compromise with this.
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  6. #9666
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    For those wanting to "explain away" Dernbach's economy rate based on his era, let's see what happens if we look at bowlers bowling 300+ deliveries since his debut... he's still crap
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  7. #9667
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Dinda right up there though he has played less matches. Confirms that we are better saving Yadav for tests too.

  8. #9668
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Just seen Kieswetter's dismissal. The bat path on that shot is frightening.

  9. #9669
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    I raise you one useless sack of ****e Dernbach, with one hideously limited Kieswetter and England could be winning the series.
    We'd almost certainly be stronger with Buttler for Kieswetter but who's replacing Dernbach?

    Woakes or Meaker, in all probability, and both are very much in the piechucking category.

    Not that I'm advocating keeping him, if nothing else the two I mention would offer more with the bat, just that the cupboard looks pretty bare.
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  10. #9670
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup View Post
    For those wanting to "explain away" Dernbach's economy rate based on his era, let's see what happens if we look at bowlers bowling 300+ deliveries since his debut... he's still crap
    Jarvis is better than that these days too; that'll come down as he plays more.
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  11. #9671
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    fwiw i wrote this about the wicketkeeping situation a few days ago.

    Craig Kieswetter is unfortunately not working out in the middle order. His game seems to have stalled and he seems unable to rotate the strike whilst paralysed by dread at the thought of playing an attacking shot. Kieswetter always has been primarily an opener in the shorter form of the game and to ask him to start a new role on the international stage was always going to be tough. He hasnít adapted so it is time to move on. I do hold Kieswetter in high regard as a tremendous hitter who could flourish against quality fast bowling attacks but at the moment he seems to have mental troubles with batting in the middle order and should be given an extended break from the international setup.

    So who to replace him and where to bat them? Jos Buttler needs to find a way into the England team as he has a unique talent in county cricket for destroying attacks and timing run chases; a talent that needs to be nurtured over time. In only 3 seasons of county cricket he has proven to be the best middle order batsmen in English limited overs cricket. His talent is undoubted and he needs to be backed. For Buttlerís style to be best utilised he needs to bat at 6 or 7 and be trusted to play his own game. It will be high variance and there will be a run of games where he fails or doesnít bat but the upside is too much to overlook. The number 6 or 7 spot may appear unimportant but for a team like Englandís with a solid rather than destructive top 3 the acceleration will have to come towards the end of the innings from the middle order. Regrettably for Buttler, England are short of bowling options from the batsmen and there is no space for a high risk player who has only showed glimpses of his talent so far in international cricket.

    Unfortunately for Buttler at present England donít deem his wicketkeeping good enough for 50 over cricket; even more of a problem for Buttler is that Kieswetter is ahead of him at Somerset as well. Buttler is never going to improve enough to be the regular wicketkeeper of England whilst he is replacement wicketkeeper at Somerset. To me, one of Buttler or Kieswetter needs to leave Somerset. As Buttler is the reserve keeper he is the player with most to gain from moving but actually for both players benefit I would actually recommend Kieswetter to leave. Kieswetterís career seems to have stalled at present and Taunton may not be the place to push on and make the adjustments to his game that is required to prosper at the highest level. The fact is Kieswetter can get away with his block or bash style at Taunton with the flat wicket, short boundary and fast outfield; There is no need for rotation of the strike when you can just clump the ball to the boundary. Kieswetterís 4 day game is actually pretty well regarded (and is a significantly better batsman that Buttler) but a move away from Taunton to a more seam or spin friendly surface will mean that he is forced to make adjustments to his game that could mean he succeeds Matt Prior as test Wicketkeeper which should be his long term ambition.

    Of course this is looking at affair from outside and without emotion. Kieswetter and Buttler both appear very happy and settled at Somerset but to truly make it in international cricket tough choices have to be made. Kevin Pietersen forsake his homeland at the age of 20 in the pursuit of better opportunities Ė would he be playing professional cricket today if he stayed in South Africa? It would be in Englandís and the player's best interests if one of Buttler or Kieswetter moved on; Somerset may not be quite so happy or willing.

    As inevitable as day turning to night, the calls for Matt Prior to return to the ODI and T20 setup have returned again. Prior is a world class wicketkeeper batsmen in test cricket there is no doubt but a proven failure in the shorter formats. Whereas his style savages good attacks in test cricket, in ODI cricket he doesnít have the range of strokes to dominate when the opposition are defending. A good season in county cricket is hardly proof of improvement and a more accurate representation of his skills may come from the recent Australian Big Bash where against stronger opposition on bigger outfields he was exposed as his hoicks hit fresh air or the edge. He has failed once too often to be considered again in my opinion and he may be better served preserving his test career rather than re-entering the constant rigmarole of the ODI game.

    In turn that doesnít leave much. Jonny Bairstow is the other clear choice but at present he is not with the squad for personal reasons and his wicketkeeping is on a similar level to Jos Buttler. He also wonít be getting many chances to improve having made the full England test squad as a batsman alone. His batting also is similar to Kieswetter in that he struggles against spin and to rotate the strike. At present he isnít the solution either.

    In another time James Foster or Chris Read would be regulars in the ODI team but their time has gone and to return to either would be an act of desperation. They may be unlucky to have not played more but there is enough talent in the youth to not need to revisit old failures.

    So that in turn leaves no-one. Kieswetter needs a break to improve his game both on a technical and mental level. Prior has had one chance too many and should be left to test cricket. It probably comes down to a straight shootout between Bairstow and Buttler. Bairstow is ahead in the wicketkeeping but Buttler in the batting. Buttler is the long term solution for me as England need to find some way of including him in the team for his combative batting and experience in run chases and at the death. It will be hit and miss and he needs something to fall back upon in the hard times and the wicketkeeping should offer that. He could be Englandís Dhoni. Whether England think he is a good enough wicketkeeper at present is another question. Probably one we will find the answer to in the next few days when England pick their team for the rest of this ODI series.

    cliffs - I've got no idea what England should do but no Prior or Kieswetter.

  12. #9672
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    Not much to disagree with there.

    There seems to be an awful lot more of these half-keepers these days and it makes things a little bit complicated. Kieswetter is quite obviously not up to it at this stage so as you say it will come down to Bairstow or Buttler but I think both need to decide (or have it decided for them) if they are going to be keepers or not.

    Wish Michael Bates was a little better with the bat (although Hampshire don't give him much of a change in limited overs as he bats so low) his keeping so promising.

  13. #9673
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    We'd almost certainly be stronger with Buttler for Kieswetter but who's replacing Dernbach?

    Woakes or Meaker, in all probability, and both are very much in the piechucking category.

    Not that I'm advocating keeping him, if nothing else the two I mention would offer more with the bat, just that the cupboard looks pretty bare.
    Well the next serious-ish One-dayers is the Champions Trophy in England. So maybe Woakes bowling won't be so dire in those conditions. Shame Onions is so ****e in limited-overs, but I'd rather him than Meaker or Dirtbag.

    TBH, I wouldn't hate us playing tredders and Swann, rather than throwing in a ****e seamer. Bopara could bowl some useful seam, if required (that comment just for Scaly)

    Really hope they give Briggs a game in both these last two matches, can't do any worse, ATM.
    Last edited by grecian; 19-01-2013 at 03:31 PM.
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  14. #9674
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Broad is a given to bowl in the CT if fit. With him, Bresnan is still one of precious few seamers we have to have done well at the death on more than a handful of occasions, and given that Anderson, Woakes and the like would be best suited to bowling out in the first 35. Need him back on song asap, really. Meaker perhaps has the raw skills if he kicks on in the early season.

    Past that, there's, erm, hm

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  15. #9675
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Top shout from the Egyptian on the keeping situation. Wonder how Ben Foakes will develop with Foster blocking his way at Chelmsford...?



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