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Thread: ***Official*** England in India

  1. #6916
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
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  2. #6917
    Cricket Web Staff Member Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    You reckon the selectors will give him more time ? It will be difficult to throw another new bat into the team with new players in the opening and number 6 spot already surely ?
    Yes I think they will stick with him for now, I certainly hope that's the case. His record in England is excellent, and he has also did very well in Australia last time out, so with that on the horizon and before that a trip to New Zealand, conditions should be more preferable to his style of play. I don't think England play a Test in Asian conditions for some time after this one.

    As you say we are also integrating a couple of new players into the side at the moment, so ideally we will keep the experience of a Bell around the side. But I do think Bell should be much better than a guy that just manages to hold onto his place.
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  3. #6918
    International Captain Pup Clarke's Avatar
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    The phrase 'experience' is just so overrated and meaningless to the present. Bottom line is he isn't getting runs, doesn't look like getting runs and hasn't for ages. It's like should we be asking Bairstow to average 60 in FC cricket in order to displace a guy who is seriously struggling? Absolutely not.
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  4. #6919
    Cricket Web Staff Member Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS1 View Post
    He clearly lacks the temperament for Test cricket. He has all the talent in the world and then some. However, far too often in pressurised situations he comes up short. I also don't buy the idea that under pressure he never succeeds; he has already done so. However, over a period of time, he seldomly does it when necessary and that isn't good enough. Look at KP, a guy that gets labelled constantly as someone who is not team orientated. He batted for time, reined himself in and settled England down yesterday. Bell was incapable and his wicket was just dire. That shot in that situation is just inexcusable to me.
    I don't agree that he lacks the temperament for Test cricket, he is in his 83rd Test match now and still averages over 45, which is none too shabby, but for a guy that has the ability with the bat that he does, we just expect more! There is a certain amount of inflation in that average I suppose with his flaying of Bangladesh and the likes, but even so, it still reads pretty well.

    Today's dismissal I would say was very tame, wouldn't say it was necessarily an inexcusable shot, but the execution of it he'll be disappointed with for sure.

    Yes absolutely fair play to KP today for knuckling down and denying himself his usual flambuoyant game. Could be a crucial knock come the end of this series.


  5. #6920
    Cricket Web Staff Member Woodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pup Clarke View Post
    The phrase 'experience' is just so overrated and meaningless to the present. Bottom line is he isn't getting runs, doesn't look like getting runs and hasn't for ages. It's like should we be asking Bairstow to average 60 in FC cricket in order to displace a guy who is seriously struggling? Absolutely not.
    Disagree with you on the experience side of things, but I do agree that he has to score runs to earn his place in the team. A player that has put in enough good performances in the past (depending how far back the past is considered) deserves a bit of leeway when his form does dip.

    When a team such as Australia were at their peak they were asking fringe Test players to average 60 in first-class cricket over a period of time, not just in one season, so I'd have no issues in keeping Bairstow on the sidelines for now, but Bell does need to get back to scoring big runs.

  6. #6921
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    That's not really a valid comparison when you consider who those players were trying to displace.
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  7. #6922
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Disagree with you on the experience side of things, but I do agree that he has to score runs to earn his place in the team. A player that has put in enough good performances in the past (depending how far back the past is considered) deserves a bit of leeway when his form does dip.

    When a team such as Australia were at their peak they were asking fringe Test players to average 60 in first-class cricket over a period of time, not just in one season, so I'd have no issues in keeping Bairstow on the sidelines for now, but Bell does need to get back to scoring big runs.
    As Spark implied, the amount of runs you'd need to replace Ian Bell is slightly different than the amount you'd need to replace Ricky Ponting.
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  8. #6923
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    I don't agree that he lacks the temperament for Test cricket, he is in his 83rd Test match now and still averages over 45, which is none too shabby, but for a guy that has the ability with the bat that he does, we just expect more! There is a certain amount of inflation in that average I suppose with his flaying of Bangladesh and the likes, but even so, it still reads pretty well.

    Today's dismissal I would say was very tame, wouldn't say it was necessarily an inexcusable shot, but the execution of it he'll be disappointed with for sure.

    Yes absolutely fair play to KP today for knuckling down and denying himself his usual flambuoyant game. Could be a crucial knock come the end of this series.
    Didn't Bell just recently manage to get his first Test ton when no-one else in the team had already gotten one? His average has always been horribly misleading because of the way he cashed in against Bangladesh and West Indies, as well as other soft situations. Maybe he's lost some of that hunger/fight recently and doesn't have it in him to grit his teeth and earn the right to play the shots he's trying literally from ball one. I think being dropped would be good for him and the team - that doesn't mean you're writing him off. I hope he does come back stronger and values his wicket.
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  9. #6924
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Can't have been that recent, when was it?

  10. #6925
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    In Bangladesh wasn't it?

  11. #6926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Didn't Bell just recently manage to get his first Test ton when no-one else in the team had already gotten one? His average has always been horribly misleading because of the way he cashed in against Bangladesh and West Indies, as well as other soft situations. Maybe he's lost some of that hunger/fight recently and doesn't have it in him to grit his teeth and earn the right to play the shots he's trying literally from ball one. I think being dropped would be good for him and the team - that doesn't mean you're writing him off. I hope he does come back stronger and values his wicket.
    Good post. Bell has talent, and there have been times when he has been gritty and placed huge value on his wicket. Of all the knocks which are mentioned to defend him, I never understand why his Trent Bridge knock last year is often left off the list. That was a series-defining knock. If Bell goes out early India very well could have won that test, and may have been far less pathetic for the rest of the series. Sure they may have capitulated anyway but who knows, they definitely were in the game big-time when Bell came to the crease.

    He needs a kick up the arse, simple as that.

  12. #6927
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    Anyway, always had a lot more time for Bell and he did play some really fine innings last year, the Trent Bridge one was really special even when you consider the opposition.

    I would give him the first couple of tests against New Zealand, he has few reasons to complain if they do drop him before that though.

  13. #6928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Disagree with you on the experience side of things, but I do agree that he has to score runs to earn his place in the team. A player that has put in enough good performances in the past (depending how far back the past is considered) deserves a bit of leeway when his form does dip.
    The fact that Bell is actually a senior player in the side makes this entire situation worse. The guy has now been around for 8 years and is a veteran of over 80 tests, yet hes averaging in the teens overall for 4 of the most important series of his career. Experienced players scratch around for runs, look at every half decent player in the history of cricket, and many of them made runs even when they were in the worst form of their lives. The sad part is, I dont even think hes out of touch, he's looked vulnerable against good bowling that can tie him down from both ends. I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt after his twin failures in the subcontinent last year, but its becoming a bit of a joke at the moment if we allow him to go to NZ to score more soft cock runs and re-cement his place.
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  14. #6929
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    If he's not really out of touch yet putting up these sorts of numbers (and looking like them too) then that suggests more "not good enough", no?

  15. #6930
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    Amazing how Herath has improved his numbers. Was averaging 35 not too long ago. Don't have the highest hopes for Watson against him either



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