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Thread: ***Official*** England in India

  1. #6901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    His innings at Trent Bridge last year was quite vital. It seems less important in hindsight because England smashed that game, but that was only after Bell had played that knock, before it we were struggling. In general you can say he was England's best batsman during our winning streak because of the number of different situations he got a ton from.

    No doubt he's regressed hugely this year though. It's curious because before he was originally dropped in 09 he didn't seem to have a problem against spin or playing in Asia - at least he was no worse in that regard than with anything else. He was England's best batsman on the tour to Pakistan in 2005/6 and Sri Lanka in 2007/8.
    His knock at the SCG in 10/11 was pretty important as well, although admittedly we'd already retained the Ashes.

    Nevertheless, he's regressed significantly and he simply isn't trustworthy again. I believe he needs dropping.

  2. #6902
    State Captain Stapel's Avatar
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    It is only a week ago that Bell steered England home after three quick wickets, including Cook's and Pietersen's, had fallen. Not the most impressive knock by any standards, but still.

    Bell averaged 30 against the Saffers in the summer. Not good! But not extremely bad either. Averaging 30 in a series now and then is simply what happens to any good batsman. And that's what Bell is: a good batsman. Not a great one. the great batsmen average over 50 and have fewer blips.

    And do England have an alternative? England can do with Bell at 5 for a long long time! Since no single batsman, apart from Baby Joe today, hasn't been able to secure the #6 spot since Freddie figured out he was more a boxer than a cricketer, there is nobody competing for his place!

  3. #6903
    International Captain Pup Clarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stapel View Post
    And do England have an alternative?
    I never understand this question. If you want me to be annoyingly pedantic then yes there are English-qualified batsman in county cricket.
    Last edited by Pup Clarke; 13-12-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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  4. #6904
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stapel View Post
    It is only a week ago that Bell steered England home after three quick wickets, including Cook's and Pietersen's, had fallen. Not the most impressive knock by any standards, but still.

    Bell averaged 30 against the Saffers in the summer. Not good! But not extremely bad either. Averaging 30 in a series now and then is simply what happens to any good batsman. And that's what Bell is: a good batsman. Not a great one. the great batsmen average over 50 and have fewer blips.

    And do England have an alternative? England can do with Bell at 5 for a long long time! Since no single batsman, apart from Baby Joe today, hasn't been able to secure the #6 spot since Freddie figured out he was more a boxer than a cricketer, there is nobody competing for his place!
    Mate, they were chasing 40 ffs.

    It's like eulogising Rob Quiney's eight.
    Last edited by Burgey; 13-12-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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  5. #6905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Mate, they were chasing 40 ffs.

    It's like eulogising Rob Quiney's eight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stapel View Post
    It is only a week ago that Bell steered England home after three quick wickets, including Cook's and Pietersen's, had fallen. Not the most impressive knock by any standards, but still.

    Bell averaged 30 against the Saffers in the summer. Not good! But not extremely bad either. Averaging 30 in a series now and then is simply what happens to any good batsman. And that's what Bell is: a good batsman. Not a great one. the great batsmen average over 50 and have fewer blips.

    And do England have an alternative? England can do with Bell at 5 for a long long time! Since no single batsman, apart from Baby Joe today, hasn't been able to secure the #6 spot since Freddie figured out he was more a boxer than a cricketer, there is nobody competing for his place!
    Yep, James Taylor. Kid looked like he had a solid temperament. Deserves another crack soon.

  7. #6907
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    Waiting for th inevitable article after this series from Cricinfo about how Bopara is sitll a really good option.
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  8. #6908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    His innings at Trent Bridge last year was quite vital. It seems less important in hindsight because England smashed that game, but that was only after Bell had played that knock, before it we were struggling. In general you can say he was England's best batsman during our winning streak because of the number of different situations he got a ton from.

    No doubt he's regressed hugely this year though. It's curious because before he was originally dropped in 09 he didn't seem to have a problem against spin or playing in Asia - at least he was no worse in that regard than with anything else. He was England's best batsman on the tour to Pakistan in 2005/6 and Sri Lanka in 2007/8.
    Tortuous special pleading. Be honest, under certain known conditions, which amount to about a quarter of the playing schedule, Bell - a batsman rated as world class by some here not so long ago - is actually a long shot to get into double figures. I have backed Swann to get more runs than Bell and have a better average than him in three separate tours under said conditions and have so far been proved right every time. Bell has at no stage been England's best batsman.

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    How long will India persist with Ashwin and Ojha as test spinners ? Thought Chawla and Jadeja did good jobs.

    Some attritional stuff today and fair play to the poms for gutsing it out. Saw a bit of it, reminded me a little of that Delhi pitch that just didn't bounce that much but not as bad. Then reverse swing and a bit of turn, it didn't look easy.

  10. #6910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Mate, they were chasing 40 ffs.

    It's like eulogising Rob Quiney's eight.
    you're such a hard marker. it was nine.
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I just love all kinds of balls.

  11. #6911
    Cricket Web Staff Member Woodster's Avatar
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    Ian Bell was the major disappointment for me today, was really hoping he could come up trumps in this Test and dispel any fears of his place becoming under increasing threat. As I've said on previous occasions I'm a big fan of Bell, he is one of the most attractive batsmen to watch in world cricket, but I realise that doesn't guarantee Test runs.

    I don't necessarily go along with the thoery that he cannot score runs when the team needs them most, and he can succeed in trying conditions, but not with the kind of consistency that means his place in the side never comes under serious scrutiny.

    I did think after a few breakthroughs in the last couple of years that he really could kick on and become one of the world's very top batsmen, but he has failed to live up to those expectations so far and his struggles in Asia cannot be understated and are no coincidence. For someone with his talent, I would have expected him to learn lessons from the past and certainly improved his play in that part of the world if not necessarily conquer it.
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  12. #6912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Ian Bell was the major disappointment for me today, was really hoping he could come up trumps in this Test and dispel any fears of his place becoming under increasing threat. As I've said on previous occasions I'm a big fan of Bell, he is one of the most attractive batsmen to watch in world cricket, but I realise that doesn't guarantee Test runs.

    I don't necessarily go along with the thoery that he cannot score runs when the team needs them most, and he can succeed in trying conditions, but not with the kind of consistency that means his place in the side never comes under serious scrutiny.

    I did think after a few breakthroughs in the last couple of years that he really could kick on and become one of the world's very top batsmen, but he has failed to live up to those expectations so far and his struggles in Asia cannot be understated and are no coincidence. For someone with his talent, I would have expected him to learn lessons from the past and certainly improved his play in that part of the world if not necessarily conquer it.
    You reckon the selectors will give him more time ? It will be difficult to throw another new bat into the team with new players in the opening and number 6 spot already surely ?

  13. #6913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodster View Post
    Ian Bell was the major disappointment for me today, was really hoping he could come up trumps in this Test and dispel any fears of his place becoming under increasing threat. As I've said on previous occasions I'm a big fan of Bell, he is one of the most attractive batsmen to watch in world cricket, but I realise that doesn't guarantee Test runs.

    I don't necessarily go along with the thoery that he cannot score runs when the team needs them most, and he can succeed in trying conditions, but not with the kind of consistency that means his place in the side never comes under serious scrutiny.

    I did think after a few breakthroughs in the last couple of years that he really could kick on and become one of the world's very top batsmen, but he has failed to live up to those expectations so far and his struggles in Asia cannot be understated and are no coincidence. For someone with his talent, I would have expected him to learn lessons from the past and certainly improved his play in that part of the world if not necessarily conquer it.
    He clearly lacks the temperament for Test cricket. He has all the talent in the world and then some. However, far too often in pressurised situations he comes up short. I also don't buy the idea that under pressure he never succeeds; he has already done so. However, over a period of time, he seldomly does it when necessary and that isn't good enough. Look at KP, a guy that gets labelled constantly as someone who is not team orientated. He batted for time, reined himself in and settled England down yesterday. Bell was incapable and his wicket was just dire. That shot in that situation is just inexcusable to me.

  14. #6914
    International Captain Pup Clarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    It will be difficult to throw another new bat into the team with new players in the opening and number 6 spot already surely ?
    You forgetting Faf?

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    International 12th Man SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pup Clarke View Post
    You forgetting Faf?
    Definitely not.

    But England would introduce 3 newish batsman together instead of relying on Bell's experience to pull through. But then there is the other thought that he just isn't scoring runs so what does it hurt to put fresh blood into the team.

    It seems the option of Prior at 6 has also fallen by the way side with Broad and Swann's batting regressing recently.



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