***Official*** England in India

[silentstriker]

Nagpur pitch may also disappoint MS Dhoni - The Times of India

As long as it's not a draw pitch.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

The problem with India is simple - lack of preparation.

Test cricket is all about preparation.. I dont think Indian cricketers prepare as much for big test series like England and Australia..which is not exactly their fault..they just don't have enough time from all the different cricket they play.

Back when IPL and CL were still new, the flag bearers and usual suspects Bhogle, Manjrekar and Shastri would claim, hey if IPL is so bad, how come India are the number 1 test side?

Well now that IPL and CL are a few years old, I think the effects are starting to show.

I am not saying that playing T20 makes you a bad player.
I am saying lack of proper preparation makes you play badly and for preparation, you need time...which multiple T20 leagues will not allow you to have.



As for the 4th test, I still think India have a chance...simply because England can have a brain freeze and implode any time...

Bull****. It's not like the Indian team was sitting twiddling their thumbs or having 3 practice matches per series when there was no IPL.

Love how everyone is trying to invent different ways of blaming the IPL for the current slump of the test team. Were people similarly complementing it when India won the WC and also were number 1 about a year and half back ?

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Bull****. It's not like the Indian team was sitting twiddling their thumbs or having 3 practice matches per series when there was no IPL.

Love how everyone is trying to invent different ways of blaming the IPL for the current slump of the test team. Were people similarly complementing it when India won the WC and also were number 1 about a year and half back ?

This is exactly the problem..your line of argument..

Oh IPL started in 2008, but India became number 1 test team for the first time in 2009
IPL must be good.

I am not just blaming IPL..I am blaming too much cricket.
If you don't think a long World Cup and a long IPL season had anything to do with India losing 0-4 in England last year and Zaheer and Sehwag breaking down, that's your choice. But don't be surprised if rest of the word and any sane person point out these factors.

[SJS]

"People talk about attitude and say the players don't care because there is too much money in the IPL... But the main thing is their lack of skill and ability, which is more worrying. It raises questions as to the talent and quality of players coming through."

"how to bring through young players who have the skill, technique, temperament and desire to play Test cricket."

"One of the challenges is that our domestic cricket is not of the quality to allow players to seamlessly move into international cricket. England have put a mirror up to Indian cricket and shown them the challenges that they face,"

Rahul Dravid hits the nail on the head talking to BBC's test Match Special.

What Gavaskar hasn't done in 20 years as a senior ex cricketer Dravid has done in a matter of weeks . . . talk sensibly, speak the truth, howsoever harsh, forget hurting the BCCI honchos, do what you are expected to do a senior former great for the game which made you . . . Long may Rahul continue to speak his mind.

By the way, before asking more senior cricketers to retire from the game, how about asking some of India's senior, non-performing commentators to hang up their mikes . . .

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

This is exactly the problem..your line of argument..

Oh IPL started in 2008, but India became number 1 test team for the first time in 2009
IPL must be good.

Where did i say that ? But yeah, go on...

I am not just blaming IPL..I am blaming too much cricket.
If you don't think a long World Cup and a long IPL season had anything to do with India losing 0-4 in England last year and Zaheer and Sehwag breaking down, that's your choice. But don't be surprised if rest of the word and any sane person point out these factors.

Too much cricket is a fair point, but you are using that to blame IPL indirectly which i find odd.

Yes, World Cup contributed to the loss in England but i would have taken winning the WC and losing 2 players for the England tour any day of the week, if offered at the start.

And the point regarding IPL which i find strange is that people imagine some hypothetical world where if there was no IPL players would be sitting for 3 months twiddling their thumbs and having rest, when in fact the schedule was just as much grueling before the IPL. Replace the IPL with some 4433488 series against Srilanka and the net effect of fatigue is the same.

The Fatigue and too much cricket debate is certainly pertinent and important, but to limit it to the IPL is where it just becomes too convenient a excuse to achieve the main objective of somehow bashing the IPL. And even in the too much cricket, fitness and injury debate, there are several layers and different opinions.

You also mentioned Match preparation which though linked with scheduling is again a different issue.

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Where did i say that ? But yeah, go on...



Too much cricket is a fair point, but you are using that to blame IPL indirectly which i find odd.

Yes, World Cup contributed to the loss in England but i would have taken winning the WC and losing 2 players for the England tour any day of the week, if offered at the start.

And the point regarding IPL which i find strange is that people imagine some hypothetical world where if there was no IPL players would be sitting for 3 months twiddling their thumbs and having rest, when in fact the schedule was just as much grueling before the IPL. Replace the IPL with some 4433488 series against Srilanka and the net effect of fatigue is the same.

The Fatigue and too much cricket debate is certainly pertinent and important, but to limit it to the IPL is where it just becomes too convenient a excuse to achieve the main objective of somehow bashing the IPL. And even in the too much cricket, fitness and injury debate, there are several layers and different opinions.

You also mentioned Match preparation which though linked with scheduling is again a different issue.

I did not pick just on the IPL.. I mentioned too much cricket..now in the last few years..that too much cricket happenst to take the form of IPL, CL and mindless ODI series in Sri Lanka...if you replace that with some other forms like CPL or DPL or XPL, the point still stands.

If you look at the top 3 teams in the world today, you will find most of the players in these teams will skip these T20 leagues before a Test series if given a choice...you will find a Watson being called back..you will find a Steyn's BBL stint being cut short....you will find a Michael Hussey seeking permission from CA to leave these T20 leagues before the Ashes...you will find a Michael Clarke avoiding major parts of these leagues before a big test series.

I am not blaming Indian cricketers here..I don't think they have a choice here.. The World Cup win was great...any fan would take that..but perhaps if the players had a for a few weeks and then played some solid 4 day games..then I am positive it wouldn't have been the 0-4 whitewash that it was.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by SJS

"People talk about attitude and say the players don't care because there is too much money in the IPL... But the main thing is their lack of skill and ability, which is more worrying. It raises questions as to the talent and quality of players coming through."

"how to bring through young players who have the skill, technique, temperament and desire to play Test cricket."

"One of the challenges is that our domestic cricket is not of the quality to allow players to seamlessly move into international cricket. England have put a mirror up to Indian cricket and shown them the challenges that they face,"

Rahul Dravid hits the nail on the head talking to BBC's test Match Special.

What Gavaskar hasn't done in 20 years as a senior ex cricketer Dravid has done in a matter of weeks . . . talk sensibly, speak the truth, howsoever harsh, forget hurting the BCCI honchos, do what you are expected to do a senior former great for the game which made you . . . Long may Rahul continue to speak his mind.

By the way, before asking more senior cricketers to retire from the game, how about asking some of India's senior, non-performing commentators to hang up their mikes . . .

Indeed, rather than Blame the IPL and find easy excuses what needs to be done is a revamp of the Ranji trophy and the FC structure which has gone bad.

Poorly structured competition and poor pitches, are just making it even worse now. The money which is generated from the IPL has been used to create more infrastructure and pay the FC players better, but now some emphasis has to be placed in trying to improve the quality of players at that level and even the level below.

The structure and playing conditions need to be improved markedly, though sometimes the biggest obstruction to this becomes the voting structures of the BCCI where certain associations stall proposals for their individual gains.

[Spark]

Steyn's BBL stint is kind of superfluous tbf. From all reports he was seriously unhappy about having to be recalled to SA.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

If you look at the top 3 teams in the world today, you will find most of the players in these teams will skip these T20 leagues before a Test series if given a choice...you will find a Watson being called back..you will find a Steyn's BBL stint being cut short....you will find a Michael Hussey seeking permission from CA to leave these T20 leagues before the Ashes...you will find a Michael Clarke avoiding major parts of these leagues before a big test series.

Didn't Hussey and Bollinger come back late for a series due to the Champions League?

I don't think an Indian has missed a test series because of T20, mainly because the IPL is built around India's schedule. But no doubt the IPL was a huge part in Sehwag's injury in England, which was a disgrace. He basically played the IPL and then got surgery instead of getting surgery earlier.

Sucks balls.

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Jono

Didn't Hussey and Bollinger come back late for a series due to the Champions League?

I don't think an Indian has missed a test series because of T20, mainly because the IPL is built around India's schedule. But no doubt the IPL was a huge part in Sehwag's injury in England, which was a disgrace. He basically played the IPL and then got surgery instead of getting surgery earlier.

Sucks balls.

Hussey wanted to leave earlier..he was not allowed to by CA..

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Spark

Steyn's BBL stint is kind of superfluous tbf. From all reports he was seriously unhappy about having to be recalled to SA.

Well obviously he wuold be upset..missing out on the big bucks..plus he probably thinks that he can take down NZ and PAK on one foot this summer..and rightly so.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Hussey wanted to leave earlier..he was not allowed to by CA..

That's exactly the same outcome though.

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Jono

That's exactly the same outcome though.

No the argument is whether this makes a difference or not in a Test series..the fact that Hussey wanted to leave..the fact that SA want Steyn to leave shows that this obviously makes a difference.

[Jono]

Oh right sorry. Yes I'm with you. Less preparation definitely has an impact with the result/performance.

[Arachnodouche]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

The problem with India is simple - lack of preparation.

Test cricket is all about preparation.. I dont think Indian cricketers prepare as much for big test series like England and Australia..which is not exactly their fault..they just don't have enough time from all the different cricket they play.

Back when IPL and CL were still new, the flag bearers and usual suspects Bhogle, Manjrekar and Shastri would claim, hey if IPL is so bad, how come India are the number 1 test side?

Well now that IPL and CL are a few years old, I think the effects are starting to show.

I am not saying that playing T20 makes you a bad player.
I am saying lack of proper preparation makes you play badly and for preparation, you need time...which multiple T20 leagues will not allow you to have..

Agree completely. The IPL takes up nearly three months of a player's year and I very much doubt that a format like that stresses much on a defensive mindset while preparing in the nets. Three months of mostly neglecting the basics and then it doesn't become so hard to see why our players are finding it a hurdle too high when switching back to Tests.