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Thread: ***Official*** England in India

  1. #1816
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    Burgey, you are underselling Ashwin. Murali,Ajmal,Saqlain,Swann best offspinners of last 2 decades have all struggled in Aus for some reason Aus pitches are very unkind to this type of bowling.
    Yeah but those blokes were rightly treated with a measure of respect even on unresponsive decks.
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  2. #1817
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Anyways, looks like Trott's new New Balance bat has a good edge on it.
    He's really lost his way, Trott. I dunno if he's doing anything noticeably different technically, or if he's just in a bad slump. Maybe he's just been worked out.

  3. #1818
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    Is this guy burger trolling, ******** or both??

  4. #1819
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Bollocks. You don't hear that at all. Australia wanted to win in the Sc to assert their dominance everywhere, not be happy getting their arses handed to them away but winning at home and being happy with it.

    In any event, when has Australia ever lost a series in SL? Look, if you want to prepare these pitches constantly then fine, but you do yourself a disservice. Worst thing that ever happened in Australia was the homogenizing of wickets here. It's become out equivalent of these atrocities, only not quite as noticeable.

    I mean, look at Ashwin. The bloke is being haile as a world beater and racing to some milestone of wicket taking rhe commentators were banging on about today, but I could have played him with a billiard cue out here last summer. It was a joke. It's like preparing green tops and having Simon David look a world beater. It doesn't do you any good.
    Wasn't specifically saying Australia. If you take out Australia in 90s and 2000s and West Indies in 70s and 80s. Both those teams won everywhere they were freaks.

    But outside those teams, most sides have struggled away from home, because the mind set that pitches away from home are doctored, so losing away from home is not a big deal. As long as you win at home.

    All this mind set has created is a bunch of batsmen that are average on non traditional tracks for them.

    Yes Ashwin struggled in Australia on pitches that offered little support for his type of spin bowling. He is going well on these pitches that offer support for spin bowling.

    But how is that any different to Broad. The guys averages 40 odd away from home. But come next Ashes series in England, he will probably look like a world beater on the relative green tops in England. Should England start producing slower and dryer tracks, so they play better away from home or keep producing the pitches that got them to No 1 in world for short period?

    End of day, it is about the batsmen working on their techniques to reduce the flaws that make them not as successful at home. Not changing the pitches to make the similar to overseas pitches. You can always pick a different bowling attack to suit a different pitch conditions.
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  5. #1820
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    He's really lost his way, Trott. I dunno if he's doing anything noticeably different technically, or if he's just in a bad slump. Maybe he's just been worked out.
    To be fair, we never saw him face this kind of spin-heavy attack during his golden run, but I think people are finally waking up to the idea that you should get him onto the front foot whenever possible.
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  6. #1821
    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    He's really lost his way, Trott. I dunno if he's doing anything noticeably different technically, or if he's just in a bad slump. Maybe he's just been worked out.
    was have a purple patch when he made his debut. Even during his great run never looked like a player who would end up with an average above 50. Always seemed like a nibbler to probing off stump bowling.

  7. #1822
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnodouche View Post
    That guy is Sri Lankan? They don't win at home or abroad.

    Burgey sounds like a redneck from the deep south of the States. "Courage, yeah! Join the army, yeah! Effete liberals, ack! Need my flippin' rifle NOW!"
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  8. #1823
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    Wasn't specifically saying Australia. If you take out Australia in 90s and 2000s and West Indies in 70s and 80s. Both those teams won everywhere they were freaks.

    But outside those teams, most sides have struggled away from home, because the mind set that pitches away from home are doctored, so losing away from home is not a big deal. As long as you win at home.

    All this mind set has created is a bunch of batsmen that are average on non traditional tracks for them.

    Yes Ashwin struggled in Australia on pitches that offered little support for his type of spin bowling. He is going well on these pitches that offer support for spin bowling.

    But how is that any different to Broad. The guys averages 40 odd away from home. But come next Ashes series in England, he will probably look like a world beater on the relative green tops in England. Should England start producing slower and dryer tracks, so they play better away from home or keep producing the pitches that got them to No 1 in world for short period?

    End of day, it is about the batsmen working on their techniques to reduce the flaws that make them not as successful at home. Not changing the pitches to make the similar to overseas pitches. You can always pick a different bowling attack to suit a different pitch conditions.
    Yeah it is exactly about players adapting. Which is why blokes who travel well are rated highly I suppose. I don't get a mindset of preparing ridiculously one sided decks which are of the same character year in, year out. Nothing good for a home side comes from that kind of sameness imo

  9. #1824
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Mate, you weren't born in 1975. You wouldn't know what it was like then. It's a very different beast now.

    Johnson bowls well at the WACA for god knows what reason, he's a complete enigma. But it's hardly been a fast bowler's charnel house in recent times. Or haven't you watched matches there?
    I haven't seen any of those matches live of course, but seen plenty of clips, thanks to Rob on you tube and on TV previously.

    The WACA track no doubt was a lot faster and bouncy back in the 70s, as were all Australian pitches. But weren't Australia just producing pitches to their strength. Ashley Mallett was a good spinner, but he was no Shane Warne. Warne is reason for lack of pace on Australian pitches, compared to 70s. Also some of the bouncy quick tracks backfired when the West Indies were let loose on them.

    Though I think there is something wrong with a pitch were a short of length ball is bouncing around someones head. It is just as bad as balls consistency bouncing around the ankles of batsmen. There should be consistent carry to keeper and if you pitch it short a batsmen should have an even chance of hitting you for six. That is real pitch IMO.

  10. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    was have a purple patch when he made his debut. Even during his great run never looked like a player who would end up with an average above 50. Always seemed like a nibbler to probing off stump bowling.
    I think Trott is a quality player. He's very run hungry, but I think he probably plays with too hard of hands against spin bowling.

    I get a sadistic pleasure from watching him bat because he's the definition of a soulless accumulator. Would hate to play against him.
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  11. #1826
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Wtf, that's rubbish. A well directed short ball should not be easy to play. Would be dull as dog**** otherwise.

    edit: @chaminda

  12. #1827
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
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    You'd expect that response from Cevno to a post which doesn't in any way address the discussion at hand.

    Look, by all means keep preparing these pitches. All it does is produce the attitude which leads to the recent away pizzlings that have been dished out. But it doesn't matter, so long as you win at home. Mindless.

  13. #1828
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    I haven't seen any of those matches live of course, but seen plenty of clips, thanks to Rob on you tube and on TV previously.

    The WACA track no doubt was a lot faster and bouncy back in the 70s, as were all Australian pitches. But weren't Australia just producing pitches to their strength. Ashley Mallett was a good spinner, but he was no Shane Warne. Warne is reason for lack of pace on Australian pitches, compared to 70s. Also some of the bouncy quick tracks backfired when the West Indies were let loose on them.

    Though I think there is something wrong with a pitch were a short of length ball is bouncing around someones head. It is just as bad as balls consistency bouncing around the ankles of batsmen. There should be consistent carry to keeper and if you pitch it short a batsmen should have an even chance of hitting you for six. That is real pitch IMO.
    No they weren't, because you went from Perth and Brisbane to Adelaide which was flat, then Sydney which turned and Melbourne which was as low and slow as this abomination being played on now. The pitches weren't turned out to play on Australia's strengths. We would play the Windies in Brisbane and Perth first up on the 80s and be 2-0 down in three and a half days with four fractured skulls and seven broken ribs.

    Warne isn't the reason for lack of pace in pitches here. A drought which lasted the better part of a decade is
    Last edited by Burgey; 16-11-2012 at 06:31 AM.

  14. #1829
    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    I think Trott is a quality player. He's very run hungry, but I think he probably plays with too hard of hands against spin bowling.

    I get a sadistic pleasure from watching him bat because he's the definition of a soulless accumulator. Would hate to play against him.
    yeah he's quality but does not scream WORLD CLASS imo.Even when he was getting runs you could see there were holes in his game (that clip to mid wicket will always bring LB in to play) and one felt the moment he gets out of his zone he could have a run of low scores.

  15. #1830
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Wtf, that's rubbish. A well directed short ball should not be easy to play. Would be dull as dog**** otherwise.

    edit: @chaminda
    Yes, the key there is well directed short ball. Not any short ball because of excess bounce from a relatively full length.



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