***Official*** Indian Domestic Thread 2012/13

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Bist doing well again.

Has he been in any of the A squads? I don't recall hearing his name in them, despite his ricidulously good form last Ranji season, that appears to be continuing here. Averaged 80-ish IIRC.

[Cevno]

He's played on India A match IIRC, but that is all as he really only broke through last season. Before that he had a pretty mediocre record for 2/3 seasons in FC.

[Arjun]

Robin Bist and Pragyan Ojha are contrasting cases in the Irani Trophy, with Ishant and Umesh in the middle of both. Bist still is young and has some way to go before being an India prospect, but against a really strong Rest of India team, he's done well. Ojha is a certainty in the national side as the second spinner after Ashwin, and was once the lead, but he's been very poor in this game- two wickets in more than 50 overs. That may be a cause for concern, especially with his below-par strike rate in Tests, all inside Asia. Ishant and Umesh did well in this game, without being spectacular (Ishant) or consistent (Umesh), and regularly chipping wickets will help both.

The new format of the Challenger Trophy is welcome, as you have at least one genuine team in the event- a concern raised repeatedly by Harsha Bhogle- that it only encourages individual performances. It will still be tough for Bengal, who will be missing Ashok Dinda and Shami Ahmed. The India A and India B teams are decently assembled.

[Arjun]

Challenger Trophy underway, and India A walked all over Bengal. First, Ishant Sharma took four and Pragyan Ojha three, to knock them over for just 193, and only captain Saha had a decent outing, and also lower-order batsman Nandi, largely in the overs bowled by Yusuf Pathan. Yusuf did not get to bat, as India A won by eight wickets, with the match ending before Dhawan reached his hundred, Uthappa scoring a rapid 25 (maybe he should have gone to SL for the T20s?) and Rahane scoring 63.

[Arjun]

This series is not being telecast anywhere.

Yusuf got to bat, but with little left in the innings. India A collared the India B bowling for 335, and lost just four wickets. Dhawan, opening the innings, scored a rapid 152, and Uthappa, an even quicker 67. Rahane and Badrinath failed to capitalise on loads of free-scoring opportunities, while Dinesh Karthik smashed a rapid 66 and Yusuf, some 20 in eleven deliveries. Strangely, Umesh Yadav bowled 11 overs, taking two wickets, but all the bowlers were taken for plenty.

[Arjun]

India A beat India B by just four runs- both scores in excess of 330. Great match for Pujara, Dhawan, Dinesh Karthik, Uthappa, Aniruddha and maybe Umesh Yadav and Awana. Not so good for the rest. No good at all for most of the bowlers.

[nsniks]

Originally Posted by Arjun

This series is not being telecast anywhere.

Yusuf got to bat, but with little left in the innings. India A collared the India B bowling for 335, and lost just four wickets. Dhawan, opening the innings, scored a rapid 152, and Uthappa, an even quicker 67. Rahane and Badrinath failed to capitalise on loads of free-scoring opportunities, while Dinesh Karthik smashed a rapid 66 and Yusuf, some 20 in eleven deliveries. Strangely, Umesh Yadav bowled 11 overs, taking two wickets, but all the bowlers were taken for plenty.

Its being telecasted on ESPN HD.

Great innings by Pujara, should be in contention for ODI squad as he has a pretty good list A record also

[Arjun]

Vijay playing a made-for-T20 innings in the final. Should be in line with PP Ojha, Aravind and Awana as T20I specialists. Speaking of Ojha, he's got 88 wickets in 74 matches, striking over 42. Iqbal Abdulla, on the other hand, has 87 wickets in 50 matches, striking under 30- and also scores runs. Something to think about, surely.

[Shri]

Originally Posted by nsniks

Its being telecasted on ESPN HD.

Great innings by Pujara, should be in contention for ODI squad as he has a pretty good list A record also

Should hopefully come into the ODI side when SRT retires. Expecting him to score about 10000 ODI runs at an average of around 35-40. Should be a great middle order option to have, like Dravid.

[Arjun]

A T20I bowling lineup made of any five of Yo Mahesh, Aravind, Awana, Ojha, Mishra, Balaji and Yusuf can't go wrong, can it? Coupled with a T20I specialist batting top six of Vijay, Uthappa, Sid Chitnis, SK Yadav, Dinesh Karthik and Mandeep Singh? Only real itch would be the absence of a left-handed striker at the top of the batting order. It also gives the Test and ODI regulars to take a break from T20.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Arjun

A T20I bowling lineup made of any five of Yo Mahesh, Aravind, Awana, Ojha, Mishra, Balaji and Yusuf can't go wrong, can it? Coupled with a T20I specialist batting top six of Vijay, Uthappa, Sid Chitnis, SK Yadav, Dinesh Karthik and Mandeep Singh? Only real itch would be the absence of a left-handed striker at the top of the batting order. It also gives the Test and ODI regulars to take a break from T20.

You're joking right? Mahesh and Aravind are not international quality and Mishra is incredibly inconsistent! Chitnis did nothing in the IPL and SK Yadav, if I'm thinking of the right guy, has done nothing to show he is a adequate limited overs batsman even in domestic cricket. Mandeep was pretty good in the IPL but still, I don't know what you are trying to get at by creating a totally separate T20 squad. There aren't nearly enough T20s to justify it and these players aren't even almost good enough.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by Manee

You're joking right? Mahesh and Aravind are not international quality and Mishra is incredibly inconsistent! Chitnis did nothing in the IPL and SK Yadav, if I'm thinking of the right guy, has done nothing to show he is a adequate limited overs batsman even in domestic cricket. Mandeep was pretty good in the IPL but still, I don't know what you are trying to get at by creating a totally separate T20 squad. There aren't nearly enough T20s to justify it and these players aren't even almost good enough.

You can make do with only what you have. Can you think up a better T20I squad? India's top Test and ODI regulars have been disappointing in T20Is, so a separate T20I squad should be thought about.

Mishra, Mahesh and Aravind, though, are much better than 'not international quality'- Mahesh, in particular, was an under-19 player for India. Mishra's also the best spinner we have in India, and has an astounding T20 record, over 80 T20 matches. If you want slightly more familiar names, take a seam/swing trio of Munaf, Dinda and Balaji, who have decent T20 records across internationals, SMAT and IPL.

Chitnis (strike rate of 157) did nothing in the IPL, because no IPL franchise gave him a chance! Nor did SK Yadav (strike rate of 129), who had an explosive start to his FC career, and is definitely worth it as a T20 specialist. All of their stats clearly suggest T20I material for India. We can then rest the top Test blokes- Sehwag, Gambhir, Kohli, Pujara, Rahane and Badrinath- as also strike bowlers Umesh, Ishant, Aaron, Ashwin and Harbhajan- and pick blokes good enough for T20Is- not get stuck with Harbhajan, who's played more matches than taken wickets.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Arjun

You can make do with only what you have. Can you think up a better T20I squad? India's top Test and ODI regulars have been disappointing in T20Is, so a separate T20I squad should be thought about.

Disappointing, yes. But still better than the other players.

Originally Posted by Arjun

Mishra, Mahesh and Aravind, though, are much better than 'not international quality'- Mahesh, in particular, was an under-19 player for India. Mishra's also the best spinner we have in India, and has an astounding T20 record, over 80 T20 matches. If you want slightly more familiar names, take a seam/swing trio of Munaf, Dinda and Balaji, who have decent T20 records across internationals, SMAT and IPL.

U19 means nothing except identifying talent. It is a lower standard than domestic cricket. Mahesh is often destroyed in the IPL. If he is destroyed in the IPL, chances are he will be destroyed in T20I. Mishra did poor in the recent IPL, chances are that he is not in good form for the format. Aravind has a poor T20 record, so don't know where you got him as a good option.

Dinda is a promising option and he is in the squad but you must have seen how embarrassing he was against Afghanistan. Munaf has an average T20 record, had a pretty expensive IPL and got much worse toward the end.

Very few of the people you suggested are good options.

Originally Posted by Arjun

Chitnis (strike rate of 157) did nothing in the IPL, because no IPL franchise gave him a chance! Nor did SK Yadav (strike rate of 129), who had an explosive start to his FC career, and is definitely worth it as a T20 specialist. All of their stats clearly suggest T20I material for India. We can then rest the top Test blokes- Sehwag, Gambhir, Kohli, Pujara, Rahane and Badrinath- as also strike bowlers Umesh, Ishant, Aaron, Ashwin and Harbhajan- and pick blokes good enough for T20Is- not get stuck with Harbhajan, who's played more matches than taken wickets.

Chitnis has one fifty in the format. Certainly not even slightly proven enough to be selected as a specialist.

Yadav: Strike rate of 129 is certainly not worthy of a specialist especially with an average of 17.81! That would be a ridiculous selection. Good start to FC career means absolutely nothing when talking of T20 batsmen, especially because he's done little of note in OD cricket!

You say "not get stuck with Harbhajan, who's played more matches than taken wickets" but you ignore the excellent economy rate. You seem to just get stuck on one particular statistic and ignore the big picture. You keep assuming that there is an 'ideal XI' out there full of specialists but the best players we have are those who are playing. It is not a necessity that our best team would win the competition!!

[Shri]

Originally Posted by Manee

You're joking right? Mahesh and Aravind are not international quality and Mishra is incredibly inconsistent! Chitnis did nothing in the IPL and SK Yadav, if I'm thinking of the right guy, has done nothing to show he is a adequate limited overs batsman even in domestic cricket. Mandeep was pretty good in the IPL but still, I don't know what you are trying to get at by creating a totally separate T20 squad. There aren't nearly enough T20s to justify it and these players aren't even almost good enough.

Suryakumar Yadav is an inconsistent slogger. Fully expect him to be picked for limited overs internationals when he is in great touch in the future only to be discarded like Yusuf Pathan.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by Manee

Mahesh is often destroyed in the IPL...Aravind has a poor T20 record, so don't know where you got him as a good option.

Look at Mahesh's and Aravind's strike rates. Both under 20, and averages under 25. Yes, they've got high economy rates, but let's leave that to part-time bowlers, shall we? Mishra had one poor IPL, but 100 wickets in 80 matches with an average under 20 is hardly something to scoff at. On the other hand, we've seen Vijay and Harbhajan, with a good IPL behind them, fall apart in the World T20 that followed. Vijay, anyway, is coming off a good Challenger Trophy, and should definitely be a lock now as a T20I specialist opener, with Gambhir (zero centuries against Vijay's two in domestic T20) being completely out of touch.

Originally Posted by Manee

Dinda is a promising option and he is in the squad but you must have seen how embarrassing he was against Afghanistan. Munaf has an average T20 record, had a pretty expensive IPL and got much worse toward the end.

Can you name better options? You've left out Mishra, Yo Mahesh, Aravind, Munaf, Dinda and just about anyone with impressive T20I figures. Just what is your idea of a T20I bowling base?

Originally Posted by Manee

Chitnis has one fifty in the format. Certainly not even slightly proven enough to be selected as a specialist. Yadav: Strike rate of 129 is certainly not worthy of a specialist especially with an average of 17.81! That would be a ridiculous selection. Good start to FC career means absolutely nothing when talking of T20 batsmen, especially because he's done little of note in OD cricket!

Yadav will get no higher than six or seven initially, and I don't expect him to be poor all the time. There's room for improvement. Chitnis can also get more fifties if he bats higher up and plays plenty of domestic T20s. While India's best batsmen in Tests and ODIs may be safer options, they're better off concentrating on their preferred formats. Dhoni, in particular, can hang up his T20I boots.

Originally Posted by Manee

You say "not get stuck with Harbhajan, who's played more matches than taken wickets" but you ignore the excellent economy rate. You seem to just get stuck on one particular statistic and ignore the big picture. You keep assuming that there is an 'ideal XI' out there full of specialists but the best players we have are those who are playing. It is not a necessity that our best team would win the competition!!

What use was Harbhajan's economy against Watson and Warner? That may be the match that knocked out India from the World T20. Economy rates don't win matches- wickets in a rush do. India's supposedly best T20I side has been dreadful over the last four years, losing more than they win, with a dreadful record in the super-eights in World T20. Worse, they appear completely and totally clueless while playing T20Is. Clearly, there's too much wrong with such a team and alternatives should be explored. Other countries' teams often play T20I specialists (Dave Hussey, Luke Wright, Nate McCullum) who have no shout at getting into their respective Test sides, so why can't India?

Fair, you've shot down the idea (or at least my suggestion) of a T20I-specialist side altogether- what's your preferred T20I XI and bench? Do keep in mind the Test team needs to be kept strong, and clean.