The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
Most other threads seem to be heading in to ATG team discussion territory, and going off topic.
Post your ATG teams here, so others can tell you why you know nothing about cricket. :happy:
I'll kick off with my ATG Australian combo.
1. V. Trumper
2. B. Simpson
3. D. Bradman
4. G. Chappell
5. K. Miller
6. N. Harvey
7 . A. Gilchrist
8. S. Warne/ R. Lindwall
9. D. Lillee
10. B. O'Reilly
11. G. McGrath
Change Bob Simpson to Archie Jackson and Greg Chappell to Stan Mccabe and I'm with you
................. and Liz Hurley for Pigeon
Very hard exclusion of Lindwall and Harvey
Finally came to conclusion about all time England team
Got an England XI Fred?
One of the great Australia V South Africa Test matches (Capetown 1967) featuring two batting masterpieces - Simpson's 153 runs on the first day, and Pollocks 209 runs during the South African first innings. The rest of the South African first team added only 144.
2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Cape Town, Dec 31, 1966 - Jan 5, 1967 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Incidently, the tour was a disaster for the Aussies as the middle-order failed repeatedly against the South African pace attack. Simpson's series average of 48.30 was remarkable considering the pressure he was under to prop up the batting order against Peter Pollock and Trevor Goddard.
Because Woolley could bowl competent left-arm spin it does enable you to play an extra paceman and still maintain balance. What do you think?
Might as well post it in here, just wanted to say that I'm not a fan of when people select a batting combination who played together in an All Time team just because they were successful unless its a toss of the coin job and you have no other way to split it. I'm talking about the Lawry and Simpson opening partnership here but have seen a few other examples recently too.
Obviously if they were successful it means they were very good/great batsman, but its just unfair for other batsman as they didn't have the opportunity or luxury to bat with someone as good.
I still like the fire-power of 3 genuine quicks with proven class, and different qualities. Would make the team better equiped to respond to Marshall-Holding-Ambrose should they play a WI ATG team. Having 6 top-notch batsman would also allow the batting order to cope better with Marshall-Holding-Ambrose. Botham would be lucky to score significant runs if at No.6.
Also, time to declare my hand and promote Maurice Leyland as the finest left-handed batsman to play for England. Compton makes way for him because Benaud and Brearley rate Peter May very highly as a captain. May is the team's captain;
There is nothing morally wrong about selecting something that you know will work because you have hard evidence. Hard evidence is a fine thing, not a negative.
How do Snow and Botham compare as bowlers? Would it be possible to argue for Botham's inclusion instead of Snow?
Statistically, Trueman is the only English bowler comparable with the statistical great fast bowlers (Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, bowling averages close to 20). I know stats aren't everything etc.
Larwood is rated very highly, in spite of him figures. Not sure how to classify SF Barnes and those other early era guys.
England really haven't had many truly great fast bowlers, whereas Australia have had Lindwall, Miller, Lillee & McGrath (and Spofforth/Turner if we want to go back to ancient times), and the WIs have had, well, you know all of them. I guess the truly great aren't that common.
One more thought. Most English ATG teams have SF Barnes. Yet I never see an Australian STG with CTB Turner. Interesting I reckon.
Charlie Turner | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
Sydney Barnes | England Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
Peter May to captain as well. I think it's more of his legacy that stands him out.
But really, it is hard to go past the strike-power of Snow. It is possible to make a good case that John Snow was the best England quick of the modern era.
- Bradman rates Bedser very highly, and includes him in his ATG team.
- McGilvray rates Bedser and Snow's strike power higher than Trueman's, emphasises Bedser's success against the powerful Australian batsmen.
- McGilvray ranks Snow as better than Trueman.
So based on that (and it's enough for me, as Bradman and Mc saw more cricket than almost anyone), the first two picked would be Bedser and Snow. If we include Larwood over Trueman (and I'm basing that on what people on here who know more about English cricket than I do say), that completes the pace attack, and with SF Barnes included, that's the bowling attack sorted.
Which gives us something like....
F. Woolley/ I. Botham
I reckon you need the 5th bowling option, so for me it has to be Botham or Woolley at 6.
I'd love to know what Fredfertang thinks....
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