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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1456
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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  2. #1457
    Cricket Spectator
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    Bruce Reid would also be a possibility, Bill Johnson gives you both pace and spin

  3. #1458
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Not when a bowler's most remembered moment happens to be not out duck
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  4. #1459
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Taking SA's current side as an example, they have such a brilliant bowling unit. So much variation.

    Steyn (fast outswing, hostile, extremely intelligent bowler) - Philander (line and length, some swing, fast medium, relentless) - Morkel (height, corridor bowler) - Kallis (remarkable partnership breaking fast medium bowler who bats in the top order) - Peterson (a spinner)

    An ATG version of that could be

    Marshall-Davidson-Ambrose-Miller-Warne

    or

    Marshall-Davidson-Ambrose-Procter-Warne

    Huge fan of my sleep deprived thoughts at the moment.
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick


  5. #1460
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Now wondering why there aren't more than 2 world class left-arm fast bowlers when there are any number of world class batsman and quite a few spinners.
    That's a pretty easy question. A fair few of those batsmen will be right handed people who just picked a bat up the wrong way around. I'm one, and there are heaps more. Just from memory current right-handed players who bat left handed include Smith, both Morkels, Anderson, James Franklin, Colin Munro etc.
    @CowsCorner - 202 followers and counting!

    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.

  6. #1461
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Just a comparative look at other 11's released:

    Geoff Armstrong
    Grace, Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Pollock, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Marshall, Warne, Barnes

    Cricinfo
    Hutton, Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Richards, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Akram, Warne, Lillee

    Geoffrey Boycott
    Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Headley, Richards, Sobers, Knott, Marshall, Warne, Lillee, Barnes

    Bleacher
    Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Miller, Imran, Warne, Marshall, Barnes

    Benaud
    Hobbs, Gavaskar, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Imran, Gilchrist, Warne, Lillee, Barnes

    CricketWeb
    Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Marshall, Warne, Mcgrath

    Christopher Martin-Jenkins
    Grace, Hobbs, Bradman, Richards, Hammond, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Warne, Barnes, Mcgrath
    Last edited by kyear2; 09-02-2013 at 11:52 AM.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  7. #1462
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Bradman: 7
    Sobers: 7
    Hobbs: 7
    Warne:7

    Marshall: 6
    Gilchrist:6

    Tendulkar: 5
    Richards: 5
    Barnes: 5

    Imran: 4

    Hutton: 3
    Lillee: 3
    Last edited by kyear2; 09-02-2013 at 12:14 PM.

  8. #1463
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Interesting to see how consistent most of those teams are: Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall and Warne all virtual locks, with Richards, Imran and Barnes not far behind. The final spot - the second opener - has a clear leader in Hutton. Giving a combined team of:

    Hobbs
    Hutton
    Bradman
    Tendulkar
    Richards
    Sobers
    Gilchrist
    Imran
    Marshall
    Warne
    Barnes

    Lillee 12th Man
    Last edited by The Sean; 09-02-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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  9. #1464
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sean View Post
    Interesting to see how consistent most of those teams are: Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall and Warne all virtual locks, with Richards, Imran and Barnes not far behind. The final spot - the second opener - has a clear leader in Hutton. Giving a combined team of:

    Hobbs
    Hutton
    Bradman
    Tendulkar
    Richards
    Sobers
    Gilchrist
    Imran
    Marshall
    Warne
    Barnes

    Lillee 12th Man
    Pretty much, the batting (except for the second opener) is much easier to choose compared to the last two bowling selections.
    Last edited by kyear2; 09-02-2013 at 11:21 AM.

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    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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  11. #1466
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    He was on the jury for Cricinfo's one, so he obviously has made one. Never come across it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..

  12. #1467
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    I like Haigh's concluding paragraph;

    So why perform an exercise that seems meretricious, intellectually flawed and is almost bound to mislead? Two reasons. First, it cajoles us into contemplating the past, for which the modern game, which wants our money rather than our love, gives us little encouragement. Second, in superficially obscuring differences, it forces us to acknowledge them: we have to pretend that the world of cricket has not changed because we know it has. Oh, one other reason: because it's fun, and ultimately, although it is so easy to forget in this grim present, that is what we're here for.

  13. #1468
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Pretty much, the batting (except for the second opener) is much easier to choose compared to the last two bowling selections.
    I don't think even second opener is up for debate.

    Hobbs - Hutton - Don - Sachin - Viv - Sobers can be considered the batting line up for best XI. And we can probably add Gilly, Marshall, Warne to that list. So probably 9 places filled.

    Remaining are generally a fight between Lillee, Imran, Barnes and probably Akram(I personally prefer Davidson if we are to go for left arm variation, having said that with sobers there no need for another left arm) or Murali.

    Also the great thing about that batting line up is, if we look at chronologically there are pretty much the best batsman of their era.

    Hobbs 1908-30
    Don 29-38, 46-48
    Hutton 38, 46-55
    Sobers 55-73
    Viv 74-91
    Sachin 89-2013*

    Its as if a baton passed from one generation to other. And they all pretty much perfectly fit into the 6 slots. I am not sure whether any future batsman can break into that line up. Would be very interesting to see.
    kyear2 likes this.

  14. #1469
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Trumper View Post
    I don't think even second opener is up for debate.

    Hobbs - Hutton - Don - Sachin - Viv - Sobers can be considered the batting line up for best XI. And we can probably add Gilly, Marshall, Warne to that list. So probably 9 places filled.

    Remaining are generally a fight between Lillee, Imran, Barnes and probably Akram(I personally prefer Davidson if we are to go for left arm variation, having said that with sobers there no need for another left arm) or Murali.

    Also the great thing about that batting line up is, if we look at chronologically there are pretty much the best batsman of their era.

    Hobbs 1908-30
    Don 29-38, 46-48
    Hutton 38, 46-55
    Sobers 55-73
    Viv 74-91
    Sachin 89-2013*

    Its as if a baton passed from one generation to other. And they all pretty much perfectly fit into the 6 slots. I am not sure whether any future batsman can break into that line up. Would be very interesting to see.
    Tendulkar has not been the best batsman for 24 years. Also, I don't see how 3/7 makes Hutton a surefire selection but maybe thats just me..

    An old XI, but still, it was Bradman's (2001)
    Richards, Morris, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Tallon, Lindwall, Lillee, Bedser, O'Reilly, Grimmett.
    Last edited by Coronis; 09-02-2013 at 05:57 PM.

  15. #1470
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Trumper View Post
    I don't think even second opener is up for debate.

    Hobbs - Hutton - Don - Sachin - Viv - Sobers can be considered the batting line up for best XI. And we can probably add Gilly, Marshall, Warne to that list. So probably 9 places filled.

    Remaining are generally a fight between Lillee, Imran, Barnes and probably Akram(I personally prefer Davidson if we are to go for left arm variation, having said that with sobers there no need for another left arm) or Murali.

    Also the great thing about that batting line up is, if we look at chronologically there are pretty much the best batsman of their era.

    Hobbs 1908-30
    Don 29-38, 46-48
    Hutton 38, 46-55
    Sobers 55-73
    Viv 74-91
    Sachin 89-2013*

    Its as if a baton passed from one generation to other. And they all pretty much perfectly fit into the 6 slots. I am not sure whether any future batsman can break into that line up. Would be very interesting to see.
    I think there are plenty of other great middle order players that should be considered. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make out. G.Chappell, Hammond, G.Pollock, Kallis and Lara are all very legit contenders for either Viv or Tendulkar's spots imo.



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