The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Monk]

[MartinB]

Bruce Reid would also be a possibility, Bill Johnson gives you both pace and spin

[watson]

Originally Posted by Monk

Not when a bowler's most remembered moment happens to be not out duck

[Jager]

Taking SA's current side as an example, they have such a brilliant bowling unit. So much variation.

Steyn (fast outswing, hostile, extremely intelligent bowler) - Philander (line and length, some swing, fast medium, relentless) - Morkel (height, corridor bowler) - Kallis (remarkable partnership breaking fast medium bowler who bats in the top order) - Peterson (a spinner)

An ATG version of that could be

Marshall-Davidson-Ambrose-Miller-Warne

or

Marshall-Davidson-Ambrose-Procter-Warne

Huge fan of my sleep deprived thoughts at the moment.

[MrPrez]

Originally Posted by watson

Now wondering why there aren't more than 2 world class left-arm fast bowlers when there are any number of world class batsman and quite a few spinners.

That's a pretty easy question. A fair few of those batsmen will be right handed people who just picked a bat up the wrong way around. I'm one, and there are heaps more. Just from memory current right-handed players who bat left handed include Smith, both Morkels, Anderson, James Franklin, Colin Munro etc.

[kyear2]

Just a comparative look at other 11's released:

Geoff Armstrong
Grace, Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Pollock, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Marshall, Warne, Barnes

Cricinfo
Hutton, Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Richards, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Akram, Warne, Lillee

Geoffrey Boycott
Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Headley, Richards, Sobers, Knott, Marshall, Warne, Lillee, Barnes

Bleacher
Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Miller, Imran, Warne, Marshall, Barnes

Benaud
Hobbs, Gavaskar, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Imran, Gilchrist, Warne, Lillee, Barnes

CricketWeb
Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Marshall, Warne, Mcgrath

Christopher Martin-Jenkins
Grace, Hobbs, Bradman, Richards, Hammond, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall, Warne, Barnes, Mcgrath

[kyear2]

Bradman: 7
Sobers: 7
Hobbs: 7
Warne:7

Marshall: 6
Gilchrist:6

Tendulkar: 5
Richards: 5
Barnes: 5

Imran: 4

Hutton: 3
Lillee: 3

[The Sean]

Interesting to see how consistent most of those teams are: Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall and Warne all virtual locks, with Richards, Imran and Barnes not far behind. The final spot - the second opener - has a clear leader in Hutton. Giving a combined team of:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Marshall
Warne
Barnes

Lillee 12th Man

[kyear2]

Originally Posted by The Sean

Interesting to see how consistent most of those teams are: Hobbs, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Marshall and Warne all virtual locks, with Richards, Imran and Barnes not far behind. The final spot - the second opener - has a clear leader in Hutton. Giving a combined team of:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Marshall
Warne
Barnes

Lillee 12th Man

Pretty much, the batting (except for the second opener) is much easier to choose compared to the last two bowling selections.

[kyear2]

All-time World XI: Gideon Haigh on all-time XIs | All-time XIs | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Nice article

Has Haigh ever released his xi

[Cabinet96]

He was on the jury for Cricinfo's one, so he obviously has made one. Never come across it though.

[watson]

Originally Posted by kyear2

All-time World XI: Gideon Haigh on all-time XIs | All-time XIs | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Nice article

Has Haigh ever released his xi

I like Haigh's concluding paragraph;

So why perform an exercise that seems meretricious, intellectually flawed and is almost bound to mislead? Two reasons. First, it cajoles us into contemplating the past, for which the modern game, which wants our money rather than our love, gives us little encouragement. Second, in superficially obscuring differences, it forces us to acknowledge them: we have to pretend that the world of cricket has not changed because we know it has. Oh, one other reason: because it's fun, and ultimately, although it is so easy to forget in this grim present, that is what we're here for.

[L Trumper]

Originally Posted by kyear2

Pretty much, the batting (except for the second opener) is much easier to choose compared to the last two bowling selections.

I don't think even second opener is up for debate.

Hobbs - Hutton - Don - Sachin - Viv - Sobers can be considered the batting line up for best XI. And we can probably add Gilly, Marshall, Warne to that list. So probably 9 places filled.

Remaining are generally a fight between Lillee, Imran, Barnes and probably Akram(I personally prefer Davidson if we are to go for left arm variation, having said that with sobers there no need for another left arm) or Murali.

Also the great thing about that batting line up is, if we look at chronologically there are pretty much the best batsman of their era.

Hobbs 1908-30
Don 29-38, 46-48
Hutton 38, 46-55
Sobers 55-73
Viv 74-91
Sachin 89-2013*

Its as if a baton passed from one generation to other. And they all pretty much perfectly fit into the 6 slots. I am not sure whether any future batsman can break into that line up. Would be very interesting to see.

[Coronis]

Originally Posted by L Trumper

I don't think even second opener is up for debate.

Hobbs - Hutton - Don - Sachin - Viv - Sobers can be considered the batting line up for best XI. And we can probably add Gilly, Marshall, Warne to that list. So probably 9 places filled.

Remaining are generally a fight between Lillee, Imran, Barnes and probably Akram(I personally prefer Davidson if we are to go for left arm variation, having said that with sobers there no need for another left arm) or Murali.

Also the great thing about that batting line up is, if we look at chronologically there are pretty much the best batsman of their era.

Hobbs 1908-30
Don 29-38, 46-48
Hutton 38, 46-55
Sobers 55-73
Viv 74-91
Sachin 89-2013*

Its as if a baton passed from one generation to other. And they all pretty much perfectly fit into the 6 slots. I am not sure whether any future batsman can break into that line up. Would be very interesting to see.

Tendulkar has not been the best batsman for 24 years. Also, I don't see how 3/7 makes Hutton a surefire selection but maybe thats just me..

An old XI, but still, it was Bradman's (2001)
Richards, Morris, Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Tallon, Lindwall, Lillee, Bedser, O'Reilly, Grimmett.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by L Trumper

I don't think even second opener is up for debate.

Hobbs - Hutton - Don - Sachin - Viv - Sobers can be considered the batting line up for best XI. And we can probably add Gilly, Marshall, Warne to that list. So probably 9 places filled.

Remaining are generally a fight between Lillee, Imran, Barnes and probably Akram(I personally prefer Davidson if we are to go for left arm variation, having said that with sobers there no need for another left arm) or Murali.

Also the great thing about that batting line up is, if we look at chronologically there are pretty much the best batsman of their era.

Hobbs 1908-30
Don 29-38, 46-48
Hutton 38, 46-55
Sobers 55-73
Viv 74-91
Sachin 89-2013*

Its as if a baton passed from one generation to other. And they all pretty much perfectly fit into the 6 slots. I am not sure whether any future batsman can break into that line up. Would be very interesting to see.

I think there are plenty of other great middle order players that should be considered. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make out. G.Chappell, Hammond, G.Pollock, Kallis and Lara are all very legit contenders for either Viv or Tendulkar's spots imo.