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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1396
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akilana View Post
    Didn't play enough
    A FC career that went from 1927 to 1954 is more than long enough. 103 FC games incorporating 33 centuries, and 22 Tests incorporating 10 centuries is not overly comprehensive, but it's still plenty good enough to make a reasonable judgement about Headley's abilities. He is a worthy contender for that ATG No.3 spot
    Last edited by watson; 03-02-2013 at 07:19 PM.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  2. #1397
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Played 19 tests over 10 years before the War at an average close to 70, all backed up the third highest first class average in th history of the game, and those were games primarily played while on tour or againts near test strength British touring sides. Unlike Pollock his career wasn't over a five year period of arguably his prime againts select opposition, but againts only the top two teams of his era and spread over a decade mostly spent in test cricket isolation, yet he maintained his form on an icedibly weak team and batting line up where he was the sole difference between victory and defeat. That is the pressure he endured for his entire playing career and he shined.
    He played plenty and our Greatest Batsman.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  3. #1398
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Here's an interesting question on ATG sides....

    If Bradman had never existed, who would you bat at #3 in your ATG side?
    Bradman-less XI
    1. Jack Hobbs
    2. Len Hutton
    3. Charles Macartney (6)
    4. Sachin Tendulkar
    5. Viv Richards
    6. Garfield Sobers (5)
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Imran Khan (3)
    9. Malcolm Marshall (2)
    10. Harold Larwood (1)
    11. Bill O'Reilly (4)
    (SF Barnes 12th)

    I've slotted Macartney in there for a couple of reasons - firstly, his quality is not represented in his career average. At number three after the war, he averaged 71 (mostly in England).

    Additionally, he was dynamic - a quality I want from my number three, considering he's following Hobbs and Hutton. Yes, Richards could provide this, but why not have both? Richards drops to 5 so as to slot Tendulkar in between them, in the 'Roebuck Role' as I now call it.

    And as an added bonus, Macartney could chip in with some more-than-handy left arm spin, balancing the right arm quick legspin of O'Reilly. He could field, too.

    So I'd have Sobers at first, Tendulkar at second, Richards at third. I'm not sure where Hutton generally fielded, so either him or Hobbs in the gully.

  4. #1399
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    Bradman-less XI
    1. Jack Hobbs
    2. Len Hutton
    3. Charles Macartney (6)
    4. Sachin Tendulkar
    5. Viv Richards
    6. Garfield Sobers (5)
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Imran Khan (3)
    9. Malcolm Marshall (2)
    10. Harold Larwood (1)
    11. Bill O'Reilly (4)
    (SF Barnes 12th)

    I've slotted Macartney in there for a couple of reasons - firstly, his quality is not represented in his career average. At number three after the war, he averaged 71 (mostly in England).

    Additionally, he was dynamic - a quality I want from my number three, considering he's following Hobbs and Hutton. Yes, Richards could provide this, but why not have both? Richards drops to 5 so as to slot Tendulkar in between them, in the 'Roebuck Role' as I now call it.

    And as an added bonus, Macartney could chip in with some more-than-handy left arm spin, balancing the right arm quick legspin of O'Reilly. He could field, too.

    So I'd have Sobers at first, Tendulkar at second, Richards at third. I'm not sure where Hutton generally fielded, so either him or Hobbs in the gully.
    A post WWI Macartney is an inspired choice, but it does seem a shame to leave out Brian Lara or Graeme Pollock who were also dynamic.


  5. #1400
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Hobbs
    Sutcliffe
    Headley
    Pollock
    Richards
    Sobers
    Gilchrist
    Marshall
    Warne
    Murali
    McGrath

  6. #1401
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    Bradman-less XI
    1. Jack Hobbs
    2. Len Hutton
    3. Charles Macartney (6)
    4. Sachin Tendulkar
    5. Viv Richards
    6. Garfield Sobers (5)
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Imran Khan (3)
    9. Malcolm Marshall (2)
    10. Harold Larwood (1)
    11. Bill O'Reilly (4)
    (SF Barnes 12th)
    I like this team. Care to elaborate on your choice of Larwood though? Can't recall seeing him in an all nation's ATG team before. Love the choice of McCartney though. Would you include him in an ATG Australian XI (with Bradman included), or do you see him as a specialist #3.

  7. #1402
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I like this team. Care to elaborate on your choice of Larwood though? Can't recall seeing him in an all nation's ATG team before. Love the choice of McCartney though. Would you include him in an ATG Australian XI (with Bradman included), or do you see him as a specialist #3.
    I've had the Larwood debate a few times now, and it gets awfully messy. I rate him as the best fast bowler in history, and understandably many disagree with me.

    I see Macartney more as a specialist three. I've considered opening with him in a Bradman-inclusive Australian XI, but then Trumper and Simpson are set there IMO.

    Trumper - Simpson - Bradman - McCabe - Waugh - Miller - Gilchrist - Davidson - Lillee - O'Reilly - McGrath (probably forgetting someone obvious there)

  8. #1403
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    I've had the Larwood debate a few times now, and it gets awfully messy. I rate him as the best fast bowler in history, and understandably many disagree with me.

    I see Macartney more as a specialist three. I've considered opening with him in a Bradman-inclusive Australian XI, but then Trumper and Simpson are set there IMO.

    Trumper - Simpson - Bradman - McCabe - Waugh - Miller - Gilchrist - Davidson - Lillee - O'Reilly - McGrath (probably forgetting someone obvious there)
    Chappell?
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  9. #1404
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Yeah, Greg Chappell proved himself to be one of the best players of fast bowling of all time, if not the best. In a decade where most batsman's averages headed south, Greg Chappell's average climbed and then peaked during the 1970s.

  10. #1405
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    What did Larwood have that guys like Marshall, Hadlee, Khan, Lillee etc didn't? He wasn't even massively successful at test level.

  11. #1406
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    I've had the Larwood debate a few times now, and it gets awfully messy. I rate him as the best fast bowler in history, and understandably many disagree with me.

    I see Macartney more as a specialist three. I've considered opening with him in a Bradman-inclusive Australian XI, but then Trumper and Simpson are set there IMO.

    Trumper - Simpson - Bradman - McCabe - Waugh - Miller - Gilchrist - Davidson - Lillee - O'Reilly - McGrath (probably forgetting someone obvious there)
    I read a biography of Larwood a few years ago. Cracking read. And he was an absolute champion of a bloke. From what I read, you couldn't ask for a better team man that Larwood. He thought the world of Jardine too. Almost made me tolerate Jardine, that book!

    The way Larwood was treated by England as a test player was a joke though. His first class career is unbelievable, and he should have played so many more tests.

  12. #1407
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I think (from what I've read) Bradman was a decent cover field, but maybe not an out and out great fieldsman (although it's hard to imagine him not having amazing reflexes etc).
    From what I've read, Bradman was a superb fieldsman, it's just rarely talked about when compared to the ridiculousness of his batting. I've quoted before the essay by Robertson-Glasgow where he talks about Bradman standing pre-eminent even among a generation of outstanding Australian fielders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    C'mon Man U.
    RIP Craigos

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Have you decided on who your fast bowlers are as yet?
    Miller's always going to be one of them as he's my first pick on the teamsheet. I tend to lean towards Marshall because of his heart and character, I was surprised by the amount of wayward balls I saw him bowl when I watched full spells of his though. A few wides here and there - lots of swing and accuracy from the rest though. I really tend to pick players with good hearts and who played the game for enjoyment over ruthless freaks with a real unpleasant streak (McGrath's and Lillee's tantrums spring to mind). My fast bowling pool would be something like this...

    Miller
    Procter
    Marshall
    Davidson
    Ambrose
    Lindwall
    Garner

    and to a lesser extent

    Gregory
    Mahmood
    Larwood
    Imran

    Gregory not successful enough at test level to justify inclusion, but , and Imran only down there because of my colour 'problems'. Larwood only down here because I am not sure his body would be strong enough for lots of long test series, at least in comparison with superhuman specimens like Procter.

    Players that deserve to be in the discussion but who were ****s on the field/not 'teamy' enough include...

    McGrath
    Lillee
    Trueman
    Donald
    Steyn
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  14. #1409
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Going on from PEW's fielding combo...


    - Bob Simpson (1st slip)
    -
    - Ricky Ponting (point)
    - Greg Chappell (2nd slip)
    - Viv Richards (mid wicket/cover/3rd slip)
    - Colin Bland (covers)
    - Allan Knott (wicketkeeper)
    - Richie Benaud (gully)
    -
    -
    -
    Sobers in there at leg slip, Davidson as a close fielder where he was one of the best ever - 'The Claw' is always overlooked. Miller was the one who coined that term, for the record

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Here's an interesting question on ATG sides....

    If Bradman had never existed, who would you bat at #3 in your ATG side?
    Archie Jackson or Barry Richards are my first two instinctive thoughts

  15. #1410
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Miller's always going to be one of them as he's my first pick on the teamsheet. I tend to lean towards Marshall because of his heart and character, I was surprised by the amount of wayward balls I saw him bowl when I watched full spells of his though. A few wides here and there - lots of swing and accuracy from the rest though. I really tend to pick players with good hearts and who played the game for enjoyment over ruthless freaks with a real unpleasant streak (McGrath's and Lillee's tantrums spring to mind). My fast bowling pool would be something like this...

    Miller
    Procter
    Marshall
    Davidson
    Ambrose
    Lindwall
    Garner

    and to a lesser extent

    Gregory
    Mahmood
    Larwood
    Imran

    Gregory not successful enough at test level to justify inclusion, but , and Imran only down there because of my colour 'problems'. Larwood only down here because I am not sure his body would be strong enough for lots of long test series, at least in comparison with superhuman specimens like Procter.

    Players that deserve to be in the discussion but who were ****s on the field/not 'teamy' enough include...

    McGrath
    Lillee
    Trueman
    Donald
    Steyn
    Incidently, Ray Lindwall's nickname was "KILLER", so maybe he should go in the 'nasty' list.



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