The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Monk]

I don't believe Marshall was a vastly greater bowler than Imran or Hadlee. But you could quite easily replace one of them with him. I'd take Lillee first if I was going to select bowlers on bowling merit only.

[kyear2]

Great finds watson, Just amazing clips

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Monk

I don't believe Marshall was a vastly greater bowler than Imran or Hadlee.

Indeed not; but Hadlee wasn't a vastly greater batsman than Marshall either; and in fact I'm sure the difference in batting between them would be much lesser against a team of equivalent standard to the one we're picking than it was during their Test careers.

Even in a "bat to 11" team, Marshall must play. He could seriously bat. Especially if you're picking Warne.

[Prince EWS]

If I wanted to bat to eleven:

1 Hobbs
2 Grace
3 Bradman
4 Tendulkar
5 Headley
6 Sobers
7 Gilchrist
8 Imran
9 Benaud
10 Hadlee
11 Marshall

Which is incidentally just straight up my usual team with Benaud in for Murali.

[8ankitj]

How will Faulkner be in place of Benaud?

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by 8ankitj

How will Faulkner be in place of Benaud?

Yeah that was my original thought but Benaud was the better bowler even though Faulkner was the better cricketer, and he's batting 9 with Hadlee at 10, so I went with Benaud. I also considered Briggs and Rhodes.

[Prince EWS]

Could have Faulkner for Benaud and then someone like Pollock, Miller or Procter for Headley to balance it out a bit and ensure the side still had four real quality bowlers I guess.

[watson]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Indeed not; but Hadlee wasn't a vastly greater batsman than Marshall either; and in fact I'm sure the difference in batting between them would be much lesser against a team of equivalent standard to the one we're picking than it was during their Test careers.

Even in a "bat to 11" team, Marshall must play. He could seriously bat. Especially if you're picking Warne.

Hadlee was not vastly better than Marshall, but I believe him to be significantly better from what I saw on the TV,

In the early 80s he was one of only 2-3 Kiwi batsman who had any idea against Dennis Lillee. I remember the following 50 by Hadlee as if it were yesterday. The team score was 152 all out;

1st Test: Australia v New Zealand at Brisbane, Nov 28-30, 1980 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

[Jager]

Why Lawry over Trumper, Morris, Hayden or Ponsford in your AUS XI, watson?

[Jager]

Originally Posted by kyear2

Pollock is a class below any of the W.I. pace men and there is none of them quite the equal of Ambrose far less Marshall, but yes it is a very good attack with Procter probably being the best but never got the prolonged Test experience to prove it. If he and Richards has played full careers they may very well been locks in everyone's ATG side. As it is it's hard to place them above Hutton/ Gavaskar or Imran/Miller.

Please justify what you say about Pollock. It's your opinion FFS, not a fact like you seem to make it out to be.

[smalishah84]

[watson]

Originally Posted by Jager

Why Lawry over Trumper, Morris, Hayden or Ponsford in your AUS XI, watson?

Admittedly it's difficult to look past Bill Lawry's big nose, his rather over the top TV commentary, and the paronoid batting that infected his late career. He obviously lacks the charisma of someone like Victor Trumper or Arthur Morris.

But if you do peer behind the facade you find a batsman who scored some truly great centuries against some awesome attacks. I don't think that Trumper, Morris, Hayden, or Ponsford scored runs of the same 'quality' on such a consistent basis.

[8ankitj]

Originally Posted by Jager

Please justify what you say about Pollock. It's your opinion FFS, not a fact like you seem to make it out to be.

Much like how I would respond too, but I didn't. Kyear has this peculiar habit.

[watson]

Centuries by Bill Lawry

210 Barbados 1965: Hall, Griffith, Sobers, Gibbs
205 MCG 1968: Edwards, Davis, Sobers, Gibbs
166 Brisbane 1965: Brown, Higgs, Titmus, Allen
157 MCG 1964: Pollock, Goddard, Partridge, Seymour
151 SCG 1969: Hall, Griffith, Sobers, Gibbs
135 The Oval 1968: Snow, Brown, Underwood, Illingworth
130 Lords 1961: Trueman, Statham, Lock, Illingworth
119 Adelaide 1966: Brown, Jones, Allen, Titmus
108 MCG 1966: Brown, Jones, Knight, Titmus
106 Old Trafford 1964 : Cartwright, Price, Rumsay, Mortimore, Titmus
105 Brisbane 1968: Griffith, Holford, Sobers, Gibbs
102 Old Trafford 1961: Trueman, Statham, Flavell, Allen
100 MCG 1968: Prasanna, Chandrasekhar, Desai, Subramanya


Trueman
Statham
Snow
Underwood
Hall
Griffith
Gibbs
Pollock
Prasanna
Chandrasekhar

I think that's a pretty impressive list of bowlers to score tons against. Definitely much better than what Morris had to face, and probably better than what Trumper, Ponsford and Hayden had to face.

[Mike5181]

What's a South African all-time XI look like now?