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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #121
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Hanif Mohammad
    Saeed Anwaar
    Younis Khan
    Javed Miandad
    Inzamam Ul-Haq
    Mushtaq Mohammad
    Imran Khan
    Wasim Bari
    Wasim Akram
    Waqar Younis
    Abdul Qadir

    Mohammad Yousuf
    Fazal Mohammad
    Salim Malik
    Zaheer Abbas a bit stiff to miss out. Would put him at 3 and Mohammad Yousuf at 6.

    EDIT: if match fixing skulduggery isn't an issue Malik must play.
    Last edited by LongHopCassidy; 09-09-2012 at 05:06 PM.
    "The Australian cricket captain is the Prime Minister Australia wishes it had. Steve Waugh is that man, Michael Clarke is not." - Jarrod Kimber

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  2. #122
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    What I find intesting is that we are generally more tolerant toward a spin bowlers stat's than we are tolerant toward a pace bowlers stat's. For example;

    Derek Underwood:
    Average = 25.83
    Strike rate = 73.6
    Average V WI = 43.57
    Strike Rate V WI = 102.0

    Mike Hendrick:
    Average = 25.83
    Strike rate = 71.3
    Average V WI = 55.0
    Strike Rate V WI = 113.0

    So, despite the fact that their bowling average is exactly the same to two decimal places, and both their records against the West Indies are rubbish, Underwood is often selected in an ATG England team without too much thought, but Hendrick doesn't get a seconds look in.
    You have to take in to account the different roles played by spinners and quicks. When the ball is older, spinners come to the fore, but often their stats need to be viewed separately from the quicks, as they are likely to be hit around more when the ball is old, but at that point in the innings they are (probably) more likely to take a wicket with an old ball than a quick.
    I shiver, thinking how easy it is to be totally wrong about people - to see one tiny part of them and confuse it for the whole, to see the cause and think its the effect or vice versa.

  3. #123
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Aus 1st XI
    1. V. Trumper
    2. B. Simpson
    3. D. Bradman
    4. G. Chappell
    5. K. Miller
    6. N. Harvey
    7 . A. Gilchrist
    8. S. Warne
    9. D. Lillee
    10. B. O'Reilly
    11. G. McGrath


    Aus 2nd XI
    1. A. Morris
    2. B. Lawry
    3. R. Ponting
    4. S. McCabe
    5. A. Border
    6. D. Walters
    7. B. Oldfield
    8. J. Gregory
    9. R. Lindwall
    10. A. Davidson
    11. C. Grimmett

  4. #124
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Aus 1st XI
    1. V. Trumper
    2. B. Simpson
    3. D. Bradman
    4. G. Chappell
    5. K. Miller
    6. N. Harvey
    7 . A. Gilchrist
    8. S. Warne
    9. D. Lillee
    10. B. O'Reilly
    11. G. McGrath


    Aus 2nd XI
    1. A. Morris
    2. B. Lawry
    3. R. Ponting
    4. S. McCabe
    5. A. Border
    6. D. Walters
    7. B. Oldfield
    8. J. Gregory
    9. R. Lindwall
    10. A. Davidson
    11. C. Grimmett
    Doug Walters over Steve Waugh? Interesting decision. I guess you wanted an attacking bat or did you just forget about Tugga?


  5. #125
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Doug Walters over Steve Waugh? Interesting decision. I guess you wanted an attacking bat or did you just forget about Tugga?
    Nah, didn't forget him. Rate Walters higher as a batsman than S. Waugh, although they're pretty close. Waugh would definitely be in the third XI.

  6. #126
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Thats harsh.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  7. #127
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    I wasn't a SWaugh fan as such but it was hard not to admire his fighting qualities throughout his impressive career.

    My issue with Walters is his record against England, not looking at statz at the moment, but from memory it's quite terrible. Waugh is a shoe-in for my Aussie all time A team.

  8. #128
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    awta

  9. #129
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    1 Trumper 2 Morris 3 Bradman 4 Chappell 5 Border 6 Miller 7 Gilchrist 8 Davidson 9 Warne 10 Lillee 11 McGrath

    1 Simpson 2 Hayden 3 Ponting 4 Harvey 5 S.Waugh 6 McCabe 7 Healy 8 Lindwall 9 O'Reilly 10 Spofforth 11 Thomson


    If my plan was to make the second team as strong as possible, I would move O'Reilly up to the first team, move Davidson down to the second team, bring in Grimmett and omit Thomson BUT I feel as though the first team is the strongest team available.
    Last edited by NUFAN; 09-09-2012 at 08:02 PM.

  10. #130
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Thats harsh.
    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    I wasn't a SWaugh fan as such but it was hard not to admire his fighting qualities throughout his impressive career.

    My issue with Walters is his record against England, not looking at statz at the moment, but from memory it's quite terrible. Waugh is a shoe-in for my Aussie all time A team.
    You're right about Walters there actually. Waugh is incredibly consistent against all opponents in all conditions. Alright, I've re-thunk it based on consistency....

    Aus 1st XI
    1. V. Trumper
    2. B. Simpson
    3. D. Bradman
    4. G. Chappell
    5. K. Miller
    6. N. Harvey
    7 . A. Gilchrist
    8. S. Warne
    9. D. Lillee
    10. B. O'Reilly
    11. G. McGrath


    Aus 2nd XI
    1. A. Morris
    2. B. Lawry
    3. R. Ponting
    4. S. McCabe
    5. A. Border
    6. S. Waugh
    7. B. Oldfield
    8. J. Gregory
    9. R. Lindwall
    10. A. Davidson
    11. C. Grimmett


    Aus 3rd XI
    1. M. Taylor
    2. B. Ponsford
    3. C. Macartney
    4. L. Hassett
    5. M. Clarke
    6. D. Walters
    7. R. Benaud
    8. I. Healy
    9. B. Johnston
    10. G. McKenzie
    11. F. Spofforth
    Last edited by Monk; 09-09-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  11. #131
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    I wasn't a SWaugh fan as such but it was hard not to admire his fighting qualities throughout his impressive career.

    My issue with Walters is his record against England, not looking at statz at the moment, but from memory it's quite terrible. Waugh is a shoe-in for my Aussie all time A team.
    Doug Walters
    Test Innings in England: 30
    Average in England: 25.68
    Centuries in England: 0

    Steve Waugh
    Test Innings in England: 32
    Average in England: 74.22
    Centuries in England: 7

    A differential of about 50 runs an innings in Waughs favour is a significant plus.
    "Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong" - Oscar Wilde

  12. #132
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Doug Walters
    Test Innings in England: 30
    Average in England: 25.68
    Centuries in England: 0

    Steve Waugh
    Test Innings in England: 32
    Average in England: 74.22
    Centuries in England: 7

    A differential of about 50 runs an innings in Waughs favour is a significant plus.
    Only saving grace for Walters is that England were better in his time. Waugh got to feast on some pretty ordinary attacks throughout most of his career in England, usually after a strong platform had been set.

    Of course, he still played some memorable knocks, his twin tons in Manchester in particular.

  13. #133
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Smali, of course every batsman should know how to handle pace bowling in seaming conditions. Since we all accept that, why don't we accept they should also know how to handle spin bowling on spin friendly pitches?
    A top class batsman should know how to handle both but I daresay that pace bowlers have been more effective in most venues of the world compared to spinners and it seems that this trend will continue into the future hence more important to play fast bowlers better.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  14. #134
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    You have to take in to account the different roles played by spinners and quicks. When the ball is older, spinners come to the fore, but often their stats need to be viewed separately from the quicks, as they are likely to be hit around more when the ball is old, but at that point in the innings they are (probably) more likely to take a wicket with an old ball than a quick.
    Very good point. But how old is old? The fact remains, a good fast bowler can utilise the ball for longer than a spin bowler and therefore be more effective during the allotted 90 overs. Especially if he can Reverse Swing an old ball.

    Spin bowlers also tend to 'win' Test matches on the 5th Day when the pitch is worn. But that assumes the Test match reaches the 5th Day. With a trio of top notch quicks the Test match is sometimes won within 4 days thus making the spin bowler little more than a passenger.

    Having said all that, a quality spin bowler is a must if you are lucky enough to have one to select. And should be included in any ATG team.

    Two spinners in an ATG team though? That's an interesting question.

  15. #135
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    some good points Watto

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