The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread - Page 89

The Sean · 31-01-2013, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flametree

Bobby Simpson says "Hello?"

Ha ha, my sentiments exactly - possibly the finest slipper of all.

kyear2 · 31-01-2013, 04:23 AM

Was edited in, yes he was, and a very underrated opener.
Just an over sight on my part.

kyear2 · 31-01-2013, 05:45 AM

Three of the finest slippers ever, Taylor, Waugh and Richardson probably just misses on on the batsman side.

Over all probably between Sobers, Chappell, Lara and Hammond, don't think Viv was quite up there as an elite slip fielder as compared to in the covers.

SJS · 31-01-2013, 06:07 AM

It is even more difficult to compare the great slip fielders from different eras than it is with batsmen and bowlers. Lets just accept that Hammond, Simpson, Mark Taylor, Mark Waugh etc. were all truly great slip fielders. There is no point in trying to rank them. Inany event it cant be done objectively

Satyanash89 · 31-01-2013, 06:40 AM

Dravid probably deserves a mention too... for the majority of his long career he was an exceptional slipper. Dropped a bunch of catches towards the end but was otherwise safe as a house... comfortably better than Lara and Gavaskar imo

SJS · 31-01-2013, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satyanash89

Dravid probably deserves a mention too... for the majority of his long career he was an exceptional slipper. Dropped a bunch of catches towards the end but was otherwise safe as a house... comfortably better than Lara and Gavaskar imo

Dravid is amongst the finest slip fielders the game has known. The top slip fielders have been known to be those whose anticipation was so good that they ended up making the catches easier than they look when another fielder reacts late and then dives acrobatically to look awesom when he holds it and gets accolades like "what an awesome effort" when he fails.

Dravid also comes from a country with a poor tradition in fast bowling. Invariably great slip fielders (including all those with great catching stats) come from teams with powerful pace attacks. Dravid comes from a country where spinners continued to be the major wicket takers for his entire career. Of course, spinners too get people caught at slips but nowhere near as often as the pacers do. Great spinners, as the Indian trio of the 60's and 70's do produce close in catches but a very large number of them are squarer to the wicket which is why Solkar, that great close in fielder, standing in the short leg cordon has nearly 2 catches per Test.

Dravid has 1.28.

In the 100 Test catches club of 30 (so far) Dravid's C/T ratio is 10th. This is remarkable considering that of the nine players above him, only Jayawardane comes from a team without a great pace attack.

Code:

Player        	 Country	 Career	 Tests	 Catches	C/T

Simpson, R B	 Australia	 1957-1978	62	110	1.77
Fleming, S P	 New Zealand	 1994-2008	111	171	1.54
Taylor, M A	 Australia	 1989-1999	104	157	1.51
Smith, G C*	 South Africa	 2002-       	107	152	1.42
Waugh, M E	 Australia	 1991-2002	128	181	1.41
Jayawardene	 Sri Lanka	 1997-       	138	194	1.41
Chappell, G S	 Australia	 1970-1984	88	122	1.39
Chappell, I M	 Australia	 1964-1980	76	105	1.38
Hammond, W R	 England	 1927-1947	85	110	1.29
Dravid, R	 India        	 1996-2012	164	210	1.28

kyear2 · 31-01-2013, 07:56 AM

Dravid and Mahela will be included, but dob't agree that Dravid was better than either, Mahela is just brilliant and Lara took some spectacular grabs off the quicks and the ocasional spinner and was very cobsistent as well.

The Sean · 31-01-2013, 08:13 AM

At the risk of being an uber-pedant, the Chappell brothers both played one fewer Test than the table above shows, so their ratios will improve slightly.

smalishah84 · 31-01-2013, 08:15 AM

SJS · 31-01-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sean

At the risk of being an uber-pedant, the Chappell brothers both played one fewer Test than the table above shows, so their ratios will improve slightly.

Are you sure ?

Greg Chappell

Ian Chappell

Prince EWS · 31-01-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJS

Are you sure ?

Greg Chappell

Ian Chappell

Every other online source seems to disagree with those numbers though; perhaps HowStat has decided something should have been a Test match even though it officially wasn't?

Prince EWS · 31-01-2013, 09:53 AM

Figured it out. HowStat thinks this was a Test but CricInfo/CricketArchive etc doesn't count it as one because it was abandoned without a ball being bowled. I reckon it was one, tbh, because there was a toss, but there you go.

Prince EWS · 31-01-2013, 09:59 AM

Whilst the Australian Board of Control recognised this match as an official Test to be included in match statistics, nearly all statisticians around the world do not do so.

The Sean · 31-01-2013, 01:10 PM

Yeah, I knew that was considered a Test by some, but hasn't realised it was in any way official or taken seriously by anybody.

kyear2 · 31-01-2013, 04:20 PM

Garry Sobers
Greg Chappell
Wally Hammond
Brian Lara
Rickey Ponting
Viv Richards
Jacques Kallis
Neil Harvey
Everton Weekes
Bobby Simpson
Sunil Gavaskar
Clive Lloyd
Bruce Mitchell
Allan Border
Barry Richards
Matthew Hayden
Graeme Pollock
Rahul Dravid
Mahela Jawawardene
Mark Waugh
Richie Richardson
Mark Taylor

All Rounders
Ian Botham
Keith Miller
Tony Greig
Andrew Flintoff
Trevor Goddard

31-01-2013, 04:23 AM	#1322 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,490	Was edited in, yes he was, and a very underrated opener. Just an over sight on my part. __________________ 1st XI Hutton \| Hobbs \| Bradman \| Richards \| Tendulkar \| Sobers \| Gilchrist \| Khan \| Marshall \| Warne \| McGrath 2nd XI Sutcliffe \| Gavaskar \| Headley \| Chappell \| Lara \| Kallis \| Miller \| Knott \| Ambrose \| Lillee \| Muralitharan 3rd XI Greenidge \| Morris \| Ponting \| Pollock \| Hammond \| Worrell \| Ames \| Hadlee \| Holding \| Trueman \| O'Reilly 4th XI Richards \| Simpson \| Sangakkara \| Weekes \| Border \| Walcott \| Botham \| Lindwall \| Laker \| Garner \| Barnes

31-01-2013, 08:15 AM	#1329 (permalink)
smalishah84 Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: dxb Posts: 18,851	__________________ And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

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31-01-2013, 05:45 AM	#1323 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,490	Three of the finest slippers ever, Taylor, Waugh and Richardson probably just misses on on the batsman side. Over all probably between Sobers, Chappell, Lara and Hammond, don't think Viv was quite up there as an elite slip fielder as compared to in the covers.

31-01-2013, 06:07 AM	#1324 (permalink)
SJS Hall of Fame Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mumbai India Posts: 19,170	It is even more difficult to compare the great slip fielders from different eras than it is with batsmen and bowlers. Lets just accept that Hammond, Simpson, Mark Taylor, Mark Waugh etc. were all truly great slip fielders. There is no point in trying to rank them. Inany event it cant be done objectively

31-01-2013, 06:40 AM	#1325 (permalink)
Satyanash89 Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pune, India Posts: 816	Dravid probably deserves a mention too... for the majority of his long career he was an exceptional slipper. Dropped a bunch of catches towards the end but was otherwise safe as a house... comfortably better than Lara and Gavaskar imo

31-01-2013, 07:56 AM	#1327 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,490	Dravid and Mahela will be included, but dob't agree that Dravid was better than either, Mahela is just brilliant and Lara took some spectacular grabs off the quicks and the ocasional spinner and was very cobsistent as well.

31-01-2013, 08:13 AM	#1328 (permalink)
The Sean International Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 7,016	At the risk of being an uber-pedant, the Chappell brothers both played one fewer Test than the table above shows, so their ratios will improve slightly.

31-01-2013, 09:53 AM	#1332 (permalink)
Prince EWS Global Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New South Wales Posts: 37,666	Figured it out. HowStat thinks this was a Test but CricInfo/CricketArchive etc doesn't count it as one because it was abandoned without a ball being bowled. I reckon it was one, tbh, because there was a toss, but there you go.

31-01-2013, 09:59 AM	#1333 (permalink)
Prince EWS Global Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New South Wales Posts: 37,666	Whilst the Australian Board of Control recognised this match as an official Test to be included in match statistics, nearly all statisticians around the world do not do so.

31-01-2013, 01:10 PM	#1334 (permalink)
The Sean International Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 7,016	Yeah, I knew that was considered a Test by some, but hasn't realised it was in any way official or taken seriously by anybody.

31-01-2013, 04:20 PM	#1335 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,490	Garry Sobers Greg Chappell Wally Hammond Brian Lara Rickey Ponting Viv Richards Jacques Kallis Neil Harvey Everton Weekes Bobby Simpson Sunil Gavaskar Clive Lloyd Bruce Mitchell Allan Border Barry Richards Matthew Hayden Graeme Pollock Rahul Dravid Mahela Jawawardene Mark Waugh Richie Richardson Mark Taylor All Rounders Ian Botham Keith Miller Tony Greig Andrew Flintoff Trevor Goddard

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