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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1261
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I'm being picky here. I don't think that any of those players are in the same class as Imran, Hadlee, or even Botham. I'll also throw in Miller, Procter and Kapil Dev. By and large, all the really great allrounders bowl fast for some reason. No offence to Richie.

    (OK, I'm technically wrong, but I'm sure people know what I mean)
    Faulkner pretty good bat but he was more of a batting all rounder unlike the match winners you mentioned. So I kinda agree with you.

  2. #1262
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Playing for any other side Faulkner would likely be a batting allrounder, but there's no doubt he was crucial to both his side's batting and bowling. During his career he took more wickets than any South African. Despite being a legspinner opened the bowling in over a third of his matches, and was first or second change for a further half.
    Every 5 years we have an election and have to decide who are the least obnoxious out of all the men. Then one gets in and they age really quickly. Which is always fun to watch.

  3. #1263
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Faulkner was a class act for sure, and as good an all-rounder as Hadlee at least. Plus, Mushtaq Mohammad, Vinoo Mankad and Richie Benaud were quite superb. And lest anyone forget......



    And if you could count Sir Garfield Sobers as a spinner, then we have a winner
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.

  4. #1264
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Not to get off the track, but how is the combination of Len Hutton and Barry Richards as the best ever opening partnership? Hutton was a better technician than Hobbs and Gavaskar I feel, and Richards was like Sehwag with a good technique. Wonderful combo I think. Opinions?
    Last edited by harsh.ag; 25-01-2013 at 12:23 AM.


  5. #1265
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Not to get off the track, but how is the combination of Len Hutton and Barry Richards as the best ever opening partnership? Hutton was a better technician than Hobbs and Gavaskar I feel, and Richards was like Sehwag with a good technique. Wonderful combo I think. Opinions?
    I can't go past Jack Hobbs as first choice opener. I'm not sure how Hutton was a better technician, from what I've read, Hobbs was an absolute master batsman.

    My other favourites, like yours, are Hutton, Gavaskar, B. Richards (and Greenidge).

  6. #1266
    State 12th Man Flametree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    Vino Mankad, Aubrey Faulkner, FS Jackson and Richie Benaud come to mind . . .
    Not sure you can have Jackson in that list. Cricinfo lists him as fast-medium, though his Obit rather muddies the waters a bit with :

    "A right-handed rather fast-medium bowler with a nice easy action and plenty of spin, he kept a good length and often got on a sharp off-break. "

  7. #1267
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    Playing for any other side Faulkner would likely be a batting allrounder, but there's no doubt he was crucial to both his side's batting and bowling. During his career he took more wickets than any South African. Despite being a legspinner opened the bowling in over a third of his matches, and was first or second change for a further half.
    Wow. Didn't know that.

  8. #1268
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I can't go past Jack Hobbs as first choice opener. I'm not sure how Hutton was a better technician, from what I've read, Hobbs was an absolute master batsman.

    My other favourites, like yours, are Hutton, Gavaskar, B. Richards (and Greenidge).
    Hutton is regarded in many quarters as the most technically correct batsman of his time in the sense of having a sound defence, at the same time having a touch of genius. Hobbs and Hutton are obviously the two best English openers. Most people would vote for Hobbs and I get it. I do too. Hobbs is much more like the minimalist defence and footwork model that Bradman, Tendulkar, Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock (among many others) use and which is more attacking (and more awesome to watch) than the Hutton, Gavaskar, Dravid style of batting. Hutton was reserved in his showmanship, and took his role as a defensive opener seriously, having been under the tutelage of Sutcliffe in his early years. Hobbs is the superior batsman in standalone without a doubt, but I guess my question was basically along the lines that if you had to reserve a place for Barry Richards in the XI, who would be an ideal partner for him? Sir John Hobbs, who is very much from the same school of batting, or Sir Len Hutton, who might be more complementary.

  9. #1269
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    Was looking at watson's sig, and my Aussie XI is fairly different from his.

    Ponsford
    Morris
    Bradman*
    Ponting
    Chappell
    Gilchrist+
    Miller
    Warne
    Lillee
    Grimmett
    McGrath

    I don't rate Simpson and Lawry as high as some people on here do, and I've seen that some people here tend to underrate Ponsford, vastly. Always rated Grimmett > O'Reilly.

  10. #1270
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    I think I'd roll with something like

    Trumper, Simpson, Bradman, Chappell, Border, Miller, Gilchrist, Davidson, Warne, O'Reilly, McGrath
    ~ Cribbage ~

    Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since December 2009

  11. #1271
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Trying to squeeze all my favourites in to one balanced Australian team...

    Trumper
    Morris
    Bradman
    Chappell
    Ponsford
    Miller
    Gilchrist
    Davidson
    Warne
    Lillee
    McGrath

  12. #1272
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I think I'd roll with something like

    Trumper, Simpson, Bradman, Chappell, Border, Miller, Gilchrist, Davidson, Warne, O'Reilly, McGrath
    No room for Lillee?

  13. #1273
    Dan
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    Global Moderator / Cricket Web Staff Member Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Was looking at watson's sig, and my Aussie XI is fairly different from his.

    Ponsford
    Morris
    Bradman*
    Ponting
    Chappell
    Gilchrist+
    Miller
    Warne
    Lillee
    Grimmett
    McGrath

    I don't rate Simpson and Lawry as high as some people on here do, and I've seen that some people here tend to underrate Ponsford, vastly. Always rated Grimmett > O'Reilly.
    Simpson has to be looked at slightly differently because of the unique nature of his career. When you look at him only opening the batting, and remove his WSC schism comeback at 40, his average rockets to 55. Ponsford has a fantastic FC and Test record, but I tend to prefer Simpson on the basis of his all-round value - handy legspin on a turner (letting you play 3 quicks if you want) and his unparallelled slip fielding. Plus he could captain.

    The corpse with pads I rate less so.

    Grimmett definitely had more variety than O'Reilly, but the latter was such a unique legspinner in the pace he delivered it at and the mentality with which he bowled that I've always found it difficult to keep him out.

    My Australian XI looks like this:

    1. Bob Simpson
    2. Victor Trumper
    3. Donald Bradman
    4. Greg Chappell
    5. Keith Miller
    6. Steve Waugh
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Alan Davidson
    9. Bill O'Reilly
    10. Dennis Lillee
    11. Glenn McGrath


    And it absolutely pains me to leave out the likes of Lindwall, Grimmett, Macartney, Ponting, Border, Harvey et al.

    Waugh slots in between Miller and Gilchrist to play the 'Roebuck Role' - preventing Miller from being at the crease with Gilly and trying to outhit him all day.

  14. #1274
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Morris
    Simpson
    Bradman
    Chappell
    Ponting
    Gilchrist
    Miller
    Davidson/ Lindwall
    Warne
    Lillee
    Mcgrath
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  15. #1275
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    No room for Lillee?
    Indeed. If I was going to include him I'd probably include him for Warne and that'd most likely be even more surprising.



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