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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1156
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I'm probably still picking the same team I was 12-18 months ago. I don't think Lara's done enough in that time to force his way in...
    Yeh fair enough. I just get in to players sometimes after reading a biography or something, hence the changes sometimes.

  2. #1157
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Yeh fair enough. I just get in to players sometimes after reading a biography or something, hence the changes sometimes.
    Haha yeah I understood, I was just being a douche. I just find it a bit amusing that we (me included) all have little periods where we love certain players after reading more about them, and want to get them into teams like this even though they've been long retired and our overall criteria hasn't really changed. A few weeks later and they'll be gone again.
    ~ Cribbertarian ~

    Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since Dec '09

    Quote Originally Posted by John Singleton
    Recognition of Property Rights in material objects is the recognition of a manís right to exist; his right to pursue his own goals in his own manner at his own discretion with what is rightfully his to command. Just as the Right to Life is the right to the property of oneís own person, so the right to own material products is the right to sustain oneís life and to keep the results of oneís own efforts.


  3. #1158
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Lara is different though because any cricket lover can be forgiven for going through a 'Lara phase'.

    The reason that a 'Lara phase' is not unreasonable is that there is solid ground for believing that Brian Lara is the 2nd greatest/best batsman of all time. In other words it is not difficult to form a rational argument in support of Lara based on a logical assessment of all Test match innings.

    However, there are some players that CWers get hung-up on ("fall in love"), and then claim that they are among the greatest when the supportive evidence is just not there in any significant quantity. That type of 'love' IS irrational and silly.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  4. #1159
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Haha yeah I understood, I was just being a douche. I just find it a bit amusing that we (me included) all have little periods where we love certain players after reading more about them, and want to get them into teams like this even though they've been long retired and our overall criteria hasn't really changed. A few weeks later and they'll be gone again.
    My brain says Wally Hammond bats at #4, but my heart wants Lara there!


  5. #1160
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Lara is different though because any cricket lover can be forgiven for going through a 'Lara phase'.

    The reason that a 'Lara phase' is not unreasonable is that there is solid ground for believing that Brian Lara is the 2nd greatest/best batsman of all time. In other words it is not difficult to form a rational argument in support of Lara based on a logical assessment of all Test match innings.

    However, there are some players that CWers get hung-up on ("fall in love"), and then claim that they are among the greatest when the supportive evidence is just not there in any significant quantity. That type of 'love' IS irrational and silly.
    Very true, very few players can be argued to be in that catergory and some try to romantacise and claim that some players were better than they truely were.
    The middle order batsmen who (for me) are truely the elite would be:
    Bradman, G. Chappell, Ponting, Headley, Lara, V. Richards, Sobers, Tendulkar, G. Pollock, Hammond.
    If it over all top for all batsmen, Hobbs replaces Pollock.
    Last edited by kyear2; 08-01-2013 at 08:31 PM.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  6. #1161
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    I think I had Barnes in here at some point, and Tendulkar over Pollock, but otherwise, my ATG XI has remained pretty much the same. Also kyear, any particular reason why you have Marshall ahead of Warne in the batting order?

    Jack Hobbs
    Herbert Sutcliffe
    Don Bradman*
    Graeme Pollock
    Viv Richards
    Garry Sobers
    Adam Gilchrist+
    Shane Warne
    Malcolm Marshall
    Muttiah Muralitharan
    Glenn McGrath

    For reference, heres what my second XI would be:

    Len Hutton
    Sunil Gavaskar
    George Headley
    Wally Hammond
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Jacques Kallis
    Kumar Sangakkara+
    Imran Khan*
    Dennis Lillee
    Sydney Barnes
    Clarrie Grimmett

    Sanga's probably the most controversial choice here, but his batting has just been so good that he makes it. Imran could probably swap with Marshall... but for now this is what I think works best.

  7. #1162
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    I never saw Marshall bat but both his Test and First Class batting records definitely indicate a better batsman than Warne.

  8. #1163
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I never saw Marshall bat but both his Test and First Class batting records definitely indicate a better batsman than Warne.
    When he was needed, or in the mood, Maco could look like a front line batsman ie plenty of time to see the ball and good foot movement, in a way that for me Warne never did

  9. #1164
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    When he was needed, or in the mood, Maco could look like a front line batsman ie plenty of time to see the ball and good foot movement, in a way that for me Warne never did
    Thanks for that. With ten First Class hundreds that doesn't surprise me at all. I've never really read much about his batting but he's someone I've just always considered to be not far off an allrounder.

  10. #1165
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Yeah, can be a good no. 8.

    I'm sticking with the team in my sig., even though I've copped criticism for having Gilchrist at no. 6. The five frontline bowling options with Warne and Murali in tandem are too good to be discounted. That, and everyone bar Murali can hold a bat in the lower order.
    Last edited by Days of Grace; 09-01-2013 at 03:20 AM.
    Greatest Ever Test XI: JB Hobbs, L Hutton, DG Bradman (c), IVA Richards, BC Lara, GS Sobers, AC Gilchrist (wk), Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, MD Marshall, SK Warne 12th man: M Muralitharan


    Favorite XI: WG Grace, VT Trumper, IVA Richards, DCS Compton, FMM Worrell (c), AC Gilchrist (wk), CL Cairns, SK Warne, FS Trueman, SE Bond, T Richardson 12th man: H Larwood

    "Neither of them will have an international cricket acareer past 2016."
    Brocky on Martin Guptill and Ish Sodhi. 20/11/2014.

  11. #1166
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Sanga's probably the most controversial choice here, but his batting has just been so good that he makes it. Imran could probably swap with Marshall... but for now this is what I think works best.
    So you'd be willing to put someone who is likely to be less proficient (read: likely to miss chances that better keepers would have taken) behind the stumps in search of some extra runs - for me that just doesn't make sense.
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  12. #1167
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    So you'd be willing to put someone who is likely to be less proficient (read: likely to miss chances that better keepers would have taken) behind the stumps in search of some extra runs - for me that just doesn't make sense.
    Yes, it would be a shame if the keeper missed a stumping off someone like Bradman when he was only on 2.

    (good to see you back Jager)

  13. #1168
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    So you'd be willing to put someone who is likely to be less proficient (read: likely to miss chances that better keepers would have taken) behind the stumps in search of some extra runs - for me that just doesn't make sense.
    I was under the impression that Sanga was actually a very proficient keeper in his earlier days, though I'm not too sure. I know he's been at the very least a reliable keeper for SL in one dayers, but, his performance in the second test didn't seem too good. I was also wondering about the keeping quality of Andy Flower, I know he was an excellent batsmen but I've heard very little about his actual keeping..

  14. #1169
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Oh...Mick Jager is back
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  15. #1170
    State 12th Man Flametree's Avatar
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    Yeah, Sangakkara gets credit for a phenomenal average since giving up the gloves... but as we saw a couple of weeks ago, when he now takes the gloves, he isn't nearly good enough to be in an all-time side as a keeper. Maybe in his first incarnation as keeper he was good enough, I don't really recall (but I guess he kept to Murali, so he can't have been too bad). But if that's the case, in picking him you're picking a good keeper who averaged 40 with the bat, or a bad keeper who averages 55+.

    I'd rather have a great keeper who averaged 32 with the bat back when that was only about 5 or 6 points below a very respectable average for a top order batsman.

    And if you want an average keeper who averaged 50 with the bat, there's always Andy Flower.



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