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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1096
    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Add on Wardle, Blythe and Peel, and Swann just about makes the top 10.

  2. #1097
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    Is number 8 a specialist position when picking a ATG team

    Having read some of the various all time threads, it appears that the concensus seems to be pick the four best bowlers regardless of the team balance.(eg number of spinners in Eng ATG). In normal teams there is generally an expectation that the no 8 be a specialist bowler that can bat somewhat but does a team with so many great batsman need a no 8 that can bat.

    Maybe we can nominate the list of best no 8 for ATG teams regardless of what other choices would be made.

    For instance, who is Australia's greatest.

    Given Miller is almost always placed at 6 and given reduced bowling duties, that for me means that Davidson would be Australia's best choice at number 8. a line up of say

    6 Miller
    7 Gilchrist
    8 Davidson

    Would be aggresive, entertaining and be able to flog wearied attacks exhausted from having worked through the top order.

    For the Windies, Malcolm Marshall comes to my mind as their best number 8.
    For NZ, Vettori

    So who would be the best number 8 (specailist bowler who can bat a bit) in the each countries line up (regardless of whether they made the actual ATG team)?
    Last edited by Malleeboy; 15-11-2012 at 02:55 PM.

  3. #1098
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    For New Zealand, maybe Hadlee, since Cairns would probably be at no.7. Depends if you think Vettori is better than Hadlee. Since Dan's recent downturn in form, I call it even.
    Greatest Ever Test XI: JB Hobbs, L Hutton, DG Bradman (c), IVA Richards, BC Lara, GS Sobers, AC Gilchrist (wk), Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, MD Marshall, SK Warne 12th man: M Muralitharan


    Favorite XI: WG Grace, VT Trumper, IVA Richards, DCS Compton, FMM Worrell (c), AC Gilchrist (wk), CL Cairns, SK Warne, FS Trueman, SE Bond, T Richardson 12th man: H Larwood

  4. #1099
    Dan
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    Global Moderator / Cricket Web Staff Member Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Where does Swann rate out of all the English spinners? Rankings would be great
    If I were to rank English spinners, it would look something like this:

    1. Verity
    2. Laker
    3. Underwood
    4. Briggs
    5. Wardle
    6. Peel
    7. Blythe
    8. Rhodes
    9. Swann
    10. Lock
    ...
    99. Ashley Giles


  5. #1100
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Ray Lindwall, Shane Warne or Allan Davidson could do the job for Australia
    Shaun Polock or Mike Procter for South Africa
    Hedley Verity would also be capable of doing the job for England
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  6. #1101
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    For New Zealand, maybe Hadlee, since Cairns would probably be at no.7. Depends if you think Vettori is better than Hadlee. Since Dan's recent downturn in form, I call it even.
    Vettori is probably the best number 8 of all-time. He averages like 40 there, I think.

  7. #1102
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    I'll repeat some already mentioned but ideal guys (can bat a bit, and have a bit of a dip) for number 8 could be....

    Australia- Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud a few of the keepers like Healy/Marsh, Warne. Guys like Lee and Gillepsie were capable up the order at times.

    South Africa- Shaun Pollock, Procter

    WIs- Marshall

    Eng- Verity. Knott if Botham was at 7. Botham if Ames was at 7.

    Pak- Wasim Akram (ideal imo)

    India- Kapil could go that low, as he's their first picked quick. Kirmani/Engineer (if Kapil was at 7)

    NZ- Vettori and Hadlee.

  8. #1103
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    If I had to pick a current XI playing on a pitch offering something for the bowlers I would go for the following team:

    1..Alastair Cook
    2. Graeme Smith
    3. Hashim Amla
    4. Jacques Kallis
    5. Michael Clarke
    6. Kumar Sangakarra
    7. Matt Prior
    8. Vernon Philander
    9. Dale Steyn
    10. Saeed Ajmal
    11. James Anderson


    Shiv Chanderpaul would be my batting reserve.

  9. #1104
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    Vettori is probably the best number 8 of all-time. He averages like 40 there, I think.
    You're right. Vettori is the most successful No.8 batsman (minimum 1000 runs) of all time. Average 42.29

    It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
    Tendulkar - M.Waugh - Ponting - Richards - Dhoni - Bevan - Kapil Dev - Hadlee - Akram - Garner - Muralitharan

  10. #1105
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I'll repeat some already mentioned but ideal guys (can bat a bit, and have a bit of a dip) for number 8 could be....

    Australia- Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud a few of the keepers like Healy/Marsh, Warne. Guys like Lee and Gillepsie were capable up the order at times.

    South Africa- Shaun Pollock, Procter

    WIs- Marshall

    Eng- Verity. Knott if Botham was at 7. Botham if Ames was at 7.

    Pak- Wasim Akram (ideal imo)

    India- Kapil could go that low, as he's their first picked quick. Kirmani/Engineer (if Kapil was at 7)

    NZ- Vettori and Hadlee.
    Alan Knott is the third most successful No.7 of all time (minimum 1500 runs) behind Adam Gilchrist and Chris Cairns.

    It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

    I think that Botham and Ames fail to feature in this study because they didn't score the mandatory 1500 runs at No.7 to qualify.

    However, Botham did score 2690 runs at No.6 with a moderately crappy average of 29.23. Chanderpaul is ranked highest with an average of 65.74.
    Last edited by watson; 15-11-2012 at 10:20 PM.

  11. #1106
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Hobbs
    Grace
    Bradman
    Tendulkar
    Sobers
    Kallis
    Gilchrist (wk)
    Miller
    Imran (c)
    Hadlee
    Warne

    That number four position could have gone to one of many. Warne edges out Murali based on batting and fielding. In other news I really rate allrounders.

    If I wanted to make a side to face another world eleven, then knowing I'd be faced with some West Indian quicks, McGrath, Murali, Hammond, Lara, Ponting etc I'd like to bat down to 10 with allrounders and have about 10,000 bowling options including four ATG bowlers. I'd back the relative lack of batting and bowling depth in the other side to be their downfall because my team just keeps going.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
    Proudly supporting Central Districts
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  12. #1107
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Hobbs
    Grace
    Bradman
    Tendulkar
    Sobers
    Kallis
    Gilchrist (wk)
    Miller
    Imran (c)
    Hadlee
    Warne

    I'd back the relative lack of batting and bowling depth in the other side to be their downfall because my team just keeps going.

    hutton
    gavaskar
    headley
    hammond
    viv richards
    a.flower (wk)
    faulkner
    pollock
    benaud
    akram
    davidson

  13. #1108
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    If I were to rank English spinners, it would look something like this:

    1. Verity
    2. Laker
    3. Underwood
    4. Briggs
    5. Wardle
    6. Peel
    7. Blythe
    8. Rhodes
    9. Swann
    10. Lock
    ...
    99. Ashley Giles
    Personally I'd put Swann right up there, probably in fourth at the moment for me.
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  14. #1109
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    If I were to rank English spinners, it would look something like this:

    1. Verity
    2. Laker
    3. Underwood
    4. Briggs
    5. Wardle
    6. Peel
    7. Blythe
    8. Rhodes
    9. Swann
    10. Lock
    ...
    99. Ashley Giles
    Wilfred Rhodes is problematic because he more-or-less gave up bowling during 1909 to take up opening the innings with Jack Hobbs. But prior to that he was a superb spin bowler and rated very highly by no-less than Victor Trumper.

    I think that he deserves to be higher than No.8. Perhaps 4-6.

  15. #1110
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Hobbs
    Grace
    Bradman
    Tendulkar
    Sobers
    Kallis
    Gilchrist (wk)
    Miller
    Imran (c)
    Hadlee
    Warne

    Good XI. We'll take you on..


    Sutcliffe
    Gavaskar
    Headley
    Pollock
    Hammond
    Lara
    Knott
    Wasim
    Marshall
    Ambrose
    Murali



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