The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread - Page 74

Howe_zat · 14-11-2012, 02:24 AM

Add on Wardle, Blythe and Peel, and Swann just about makes the top 10.

Malleeboy · 15-11-2012, 02:46 PM

Having read some of the various all time threads, it appears that the concensus seems to be pick the four best bowlers regardless of the team balance.(eg number of spinners in Eng ATG). In normal teams there is generally an expectation that the no 8 be a specialist bowler that can bat somewhat but does a team with so many great batsman need a no 8 that can bat.

Maybe we can nominate the list of best no 8 for ATG teams regardless of what other choices would be made.

For instance, who is Australia's greatest.

Given Miller is almost always placed at 6 and given reduced bowling duties, that for me means that Davidson would be Australia's best choice at number 8. a line up of say

6 Miller
7 Gilchrist
8 Davidson

Would be aggresive, entertaining and be able to flog wearied attacks exhausted from having worked through the top order.

For the Windies, Malcolm Marshall comes to my mind as their best number 8.
For NZ, Vettori

So who would be the best number 8 (specailist bowler who can bat a bit) in the each countries line up (regardless of whether they made the actual ATG team)?

Days of Grace · 15-11-2012, 03:57 PM

For New Zealand, maybe Hadlee, since Cairns would probably be at no.7. Depends if you think Vettori is better than Hadlee. Since Dan's recent downturn in form, I call it even.

Dan · 15-11-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Where does Swann rate out of all the English spinners? Rankings would be great

If I were to rank English spinners, it would look something like this:

1. Verity
2. Laker
3. Underwood
4. Briggs
5. Wardle
6. Peel
7. Blythe
8. Rhodes
9. Swann
10. Lock
...
99. Ashley Giles

kyear2 · 15-11-2012, 04:24 PM

Ray Lindwall, Shane Warne or Allan Davidson could do the job for Australia
Shaun Polock or Mike Procter for South Africa
Hedley Verity would also be capable of doing the job for England

Mike5181 · 15-11-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Days of Grace

For New Zealand, maybe Hadlee, since Cairns would probably be at no.7. Depends if you think Vettori is better than Hadlee. Since Dan's recent downturn in form, I call it even.

Vettori is probably the best number 8 of all-time. He averages like 40 there, I think.

Monk · 15-11-2012, 06:29 PM

I'll repeat some already mentioned but ideal guys (can bat a bit, and have a bit of a dip) for number 8 could be....

Australia- Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud a few of the keepers like Healy/Marsh, Warne. Guys like Lee and Gillepsie were capable up the order at times.

South Africa- Shaun Pollock, Procter

WIs- Marshall

Eng- Verity. Knott if Botham was at 7. Botham if Ames was at 7.

Pak- Wasim Akram (ideal imo)

India- Kapil could go that low, as he's their first picked quick. Kirmani/Engineer (if Kapil was at 7)

NZ- Vettori and Hadlee.

NUFAN · 15-11-2012, 09:19 PM

If I had to pick a current XI playing on a pitch offering something for the bowlers I would go for the following team:

1..Alastair Cook
2. Graeme Smith
3. Hashim Amla
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Michael Clarke
6. Kumar Sangakarra
7. Matt Prior
8. Vernon Philander
9. Dale Steyn
10. Saeed Ajmal
11. James Anderson

Shiv Chanderpaul would be my batting reserve.

watson · 15-11-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Vettori is probably the best number 8 of all-time. He averages like 40 there, I think.

You're right. Vettori is the most successful No.8 batsman (minimum 1000 runs) of all time. Average 42.29

It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

watson · 15-11-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk

I'll repeat some already mentioned but ideal guys (can bat a bit, and have a bit of a dip) for number 8 could be....

Australia- Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud a few of the keepers like Healy/Marsh, Warne. Guys like Lee and Gillepsie were capable up the order at times.

South Africa- Shaun Pollock, Procter

WIs- Marshall

Eng- Verity. Knott if Botham was at 7. Botham if Ames was at 7.

Pak- Wasim Akram (ideal imo)

India- Kapil could go that low, as he's their first picked quick. Kirmani/Engineer (if Kapil was at 7)

NZ- Vettori and Hadlee.

Alan Knott is the third most successful No.7 of all time (minimum 1500 runs) behind Adam Gilchrist and Chris Cairns.

It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

I think that Botham and Ames fail to feature in this study because they didn't score the mandatory 1500 runs at No.7 to qualify.

However, Botham did score 2690 runs at No.6 with a moderately crappy average of 29.23. Chanderpaul is ranked highest with an average of 65.74.

Flem274* · 16-11-2012, 02:18 AM

Hobbs
Grace
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Kallis
Gilchrist (wk)
Miller
Imran (c)
Hadlee
Warne

That number four position could have gone to one of many. Warne edges out Murali based on batting and fielding. In other news I really rate allrounders.

If I wanted to make a side to face another world eleven, then knowing I'd be faced with some West Indian quicks, McGrath, Murali, Hammond, Lara, Ponting etc I'd like to bat down to 10 with allrounders and have about 10,000 bowling options including four ATG bowlers. I'd back the relative lack of batting and bowling depth in the other side to be their downfall because my team just keeps going.

bagapath · 16-11-2012, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Hobbs
Grace
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Kallis
Gilchrist (wk)
Miller
Imran (c)
Hadlee
Warne

I'd back the relative lack of batting and bowling depth in the other side to be their downfall because my team just keeps going.

hutton
gavaskar
headley
hammond
viv richards
a.flower (wk)
faulkner
pollock
benaud
akram
davidson

Jager · 16-11-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvd619323

If I were to rank English spinners, it would look something like this:

1. Verity
2. Laker
3. Underwood
4. Briggs
5. Wardle
6. Peel
7. Blythe
8. Rhodes
9. Swann
10. Lock
...
99. Ashley Giles

Personally I'd put Swann right up there, probably in fourth at the moment for me.

watson · 16-11-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvd619323

If I were to rank English spinners, it would look something like this:

1. Verity
2. Laker
3. Underwood
4. Briggs
5. Wardle
6. Peel
7. Blythe
8. Rhodes
9. Swann
10. Lock
...
99. Ashley Giles

Wilfred Rhodes is problematic because he more-or-less gave up bowling during 1909 to take up opening the innings with Jack Hobbs. But prior to that he was a superb spin bowler and rated very highly by no-less than Victor Trumper.

I think that he deserves to be higher than No.8. Perhaps 4-6.

Monk · 16-11-2012, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Hobbs
Grace
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Kallis
Gilchrist (wk)
Miller
Imran (c)
Hadlee
Warne

Good XI. We'll take you on..

Sutcliffe
Gavaskar
Headley
Pollock
Hammond
Lara
Knott
Wasim
Marshall
Ambrose
Murali

15-11-2012, 02:46 PM	#1097 (permalink)
Malleeboy School Boy/Girl Captain Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 172	Is number 8 a specialist position when picking a ATG team Having read some of the various all time threads, it appears that the concensus seems to be pick the four best bowlers regardless of the team balance.(eg number of spinners in Eng ATG). In normal teams there is generally an expectation that the no 8 be a specialist bowler that can bat somewhat but does a team with so many great batsman need a no 8 that can bat. Maybe we can nominate the list of best no 8 for ATG teams regardless of what other choices would be made. For instance, who is Australia's greatest. Given Miller is almost always placed at 6 and given reduced bowling duties, that for me means that Davidson would be Australia's best choice at number 8. a line up of say 6 Miller 7 Gilchrist 8 Davidson Would be aggresive, entertaining and be able to flog wearied attacks exhausted from having worked through the top order. For the Windies, Malcolm Marshall comes to my mind as their best number 8. For NZ, Vettori So who would be the best number 8 (specailist bowler who can bat a bit) in the each countries line up (regardless of whether they made the actual ATG team)? Last edited by Malleeboy; 15-11-2012 at 02:55 PM.

15-11-2012, 03:57 PM	#1098 (permalink)
Days of Grace International Regular Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Takasaki, Japan Posts: 3,844	For New Zealand, maybe Hadlee, since Cairns would probably be at no.7. Depends if you think Vettori is better than Hadlee. Since Dan's recent downturn in form, I call it even. __________________ Greatest Ever Test XI (according to my ratings): Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman (c), Headley, Lara, Sobers, Gilchrist (wk), Hadlee, Marshall, Steyn, Muralitharan 12th man: Imran Khan Favorite XI: Grace (c), Trumper, Richards, Lara, Compton, Gilchrist (wk), Cairns, Jessop, Warne, Bond, Trueman

15-11-2012, 04:24 PM	#1100 (permalink)
kyear2 International Debutant Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: w.i Posts: 2,490	Ray Lindwall, Shane Warne or Allan Davidson could do the job for Australia Shaun Polock or Mike Procter for South Africa Hedley Verity would also be capable of doing the job for England __________________ 1st XI Hutton \| Hobbs \| Bradman \| Richards \| Tendulkar \| Sobers \| Gilchrist \| Khan \| Marshall \| Warne \| McGrath 2nd XI Sutcliffe \| Gavaskar \| Headley \| Chappell \| Lara \| Kallis \| Miller \| Knott \| Ambrose \| Lillee \| Muralitharan 3rd XI Greenidge \| Morris \| Ponting \| Pollock \| Hammond \| Worrell \| Ames \| Hadlee \| Holding \| Trueman \| O'Reilly 4th XI Richards \| Simpson \| Sangakkara \| Weekes \| Border \| Walcott \| Botham \| Lindwall \| Laker \| Garner \| Barnes

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14-11-2012, 02:24 AM	#1096 (permalink)
Howe_zat International Coach Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Top floor, bottom buzzer Posts: 13,781	Add on Wardle, Blythe and Peel, and Swann just about makes the top 10.

15-11-2012, 06:29 PM	#1102 (permalink)
Monk International Debutant Join Date: May 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 2,550	I'll repeat some already mentioned but ideal guys (can bat a bit, and have a bit of a dip) for number 8 could be.... Australia- Lindwall, Davidson, Benaud a few of the keepers like Healy/Marsh, Warne. Guys like Lee and Gillepsie were capable up the order at times. South Africa- Shaun Pollock, Procter WIs- Marshall Eng- Verity. Knott if Botham was at 7. Botham if Ames was at 7. Pak- Wasim Akram (ideal imo) India- Kapil could go that low, as he's their first picked quick. Kirmani/Engineer (if Kapil was at 7) NZ- Vettori and Hadlee.

15-11-2012, 09:19 PM	#1103 (permalink)
NUFAN International Coach Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NSW Posts: 13,723	If I had to pick a current XI playing on a pitch offering something for the bowlers I would go for the following team: 1..Alastair Cook 2. Graeme Smith 3. Hashim Amla 4. Jacques Kallis 5. Michael Clarke 6. Kumar Sangakarra 7. Matt Prior 8. Vernon Philander 9. Dale Steyn 10. Saeed Ajmal 11. James Anderson Shiv Chanderpaul would be my batting reserve.

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