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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1051
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Surprised Kohli didn't make the cut to be honest
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

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  3. #1053
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    From 1965 to 1975 Engineer's most common batting position was opener, and he averaged 33.

    In four of those years he averaged more than 40 runs against good opposition. Therefore, we can safely say that in the safe haven of No.7 he would have averaged about the same as Sangakkara did while keeping.
    Based on what? Hunch and guesswork?
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Farokh Engineer was one of my great heroes as a child, and just about my favourite batsman, with Harry Pilling and Clive Lloyd, but with 40 years hindsight I can be a bit more objective, and certainly for Lancashire most of the time he did rather flatter to deceive


  5. #1055
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    A few random XIs from different countries that I'd like to see play:

    England
    Hobbs
    Grace
    Ranjitsinhji
    Compton
    Woolley
    Stewart
    Flintoff
    Hollioake, B
    Larwood
    Verity
    Barnes

    Australia
    Jackson
    Trumper
    Bradman
    Macartney
    McCabe
    Gilchrist
    Miller
    Lindwall
    Spofforth
    Lillee
    Grimmett

    West Indies
    Greenidge
    Hunte
    Headley
    Richards
    Worrell
    Sobers
    Walcott
    Constantine
    Marshall
    Holding
    Garner

    South Africa
    Richards
    Mitchell
    Barlow
    Pollock
    de Villiers
    Faulkner
    Rice
    Lindsay
    Procter
    Le Roux
    Van der Bijl

    India
    Gavaskar
    Merchant
    Dravid
    Nawab of Pataudi
    Hazare
    Engineer
    Dev
    Nissar
    Prassana
    Gupte
    Bedi

  6. #1056
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Based on what? Hunch and guesswork?
    Yes and no. It's part hunch, part commonsense.

    Engineer averaged 40 runs 40% of the time (4 years out of 10). That doesn't sound a lot until you realise that many of those runs were made after keeping wicket all day then opening the batting.

    With the relative luxury of batting at No.7 it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to work out that Engineer's average may have climbed an extra 7 runs if unburdened with facing the new ball, and hence coincided with Sangakkara's keeping average of 40.

    Incidently marc, the what-ifs and guesswork are half-the-fun when it comes to thinking and writing about cricketers. If everyone on Cricketweb refused to speculate, then we all be gnawing our collective right-arms in boredom. There is also a difference between wild speculation, and speculation based on a little imagination and gentle massaging of the numbers.
    Last edited by watson; 01-11-2012 at 05:51 AM.
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  7. #1057
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Yes and no. It's part hunch, part commonsense.

    Engineer averaged 40 runs 40% of the time (4 years out of 10). That doesn't sound a lot until you realise that many of those runs were made after keeping wicket all day then opening the batting.

    With the relative luxury of batting at No.7 it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to work out that Engineer's average may have climbed an extra 7 runs if unburdened with facing the new ball, and hence coincided with Sangakkara's keeping average of 40.
    I can accept that logic, often use it myself despite it being deeply entrenched in guesswork

  8. #1058
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Just double-checked Sangakkara's average as 'designated wicketkeeper' on Statsgura. It was 40.48.

    Phew. I would hate to think that I was talking out of my arse the whole time

  9. #1059
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    I think Sangakkara's batting average would have been [much] higher than 40 if he kept the gloves - in fact, I think he'd challenge Gilchrist as one of the greatest WK-batsmen ever. With that in mind, he'd be at 7 for me.
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  10. #1060
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    A few random XIs from different countries that I'd like to see play:

    England
    Hobbs
    Grace
    Ranjitsinhji
    Compton
    Woolley
    Stewart
    Flintoff
    Hollioake, B
    Larwood
    Verity
    Barnes

    Australia
    Jackson
    Trumper
    Bradman
    Macartney
    McCabe
    Gilchrist
    Miller
    Lindwall
    Spofforth
    Lillee
    Grimmett

    West Indies
    Greenidge
    Hunte
    Headley
    Richards
    Worrell
    Sobers
    Walcott
    Constantine
    Marshall
    Holding
    Garner

    South Africa
    Richards
    Mitchell
    Barlow
    Pollock
    de Villiers
    Faulkner
    Rice
    Lindsay
    Procter
    Le Roux
    Van der Bijl

    India
    Gavaskar
    Merchant
    Dravid
    Nawab of Pataudi
    Hazare
    Engineer
    Dev
    Nissar
    Prassana
    Gupte
    Bedi
    I'm glad to finally see a South African side with Barlow in it. I also like the idea of Barlow at No.3.Might remember that idea in the next Draft if I'm stuck for a batting-allrounder and already have openers.

  11. #1061
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Yes and no. It's part hunch, part commonsense.

    Engineer averaged 40 runs 40% of the time (4 years out of 10). That doesn't sound a lot until you realise that many of those runs were made after keeping wicket all day then opening the batting.

    With the relative luxury of batting at No.7 it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to work out that Engineer's average may have climbed an extra 7 runs if unburdened with facing the new ball, and hence coincided with Sangakkara's keeping average of 40.

    Incidently marc, the what-ifs and guesswork are half-the-fun when it comes to thinking and writing about cricketers. If everyone on Cricketweb refused to speculate, then we all be gnawing our collective right-arms in boredom. There is also a difference between wild speculation, and speculation based on a little imagination and gentle massaging of the numbers.
    Thing is you end with a statement of we can safely say he'd average 40 when batting in a foreign position based on 4 years out of 10 in a different position. That to me is stretching a lot of things especially when you consider that in order to end up at 33, he must have had 6 bad years to counter the other 4 years.

  12. #1062
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Thing is you end with a statement of we can safely say he'd average 40 when batting in a foreign position based on 4 years out of 10 in a different position. That to me is stretching a lot of things especially when you consider that in order to end up at 33, he must have had 6 bad years to counter the other 4 years.
    The probability that your hypothetical is correct is about 35%
    The probability that my hypothetical is correct is about 35%.
    The probability that we both wrong but tending toward your hypothetical is about 15%
    The probability that we both wrong but tending toward my hypothetical is about 15%

    Does that about cover it marc?

  13. #1063
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    In the England voting thread Brumby just named his All Time England team and the more recent player he included was Alan Knott who retired in 1981. That's over 30 years ago!

    What I am interested in is seeing everyone's team from players who have played in the last 30 years, so anyone who has played Test Cricket since 1982 is included.

  14. #1064
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Just an England XI since '82, or a world XI? And are we only taking into acccount performances from 1982 onwards (ie a player may have played Test cricket after 1982 but his best years came before that)?
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  15. #1065
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    Just an England XI since 1982 and yes if a player played a Test since then he is included and is judged on his whole career.



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