The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Migara]

You don't count first grade stats alongside test stats so you might as well remove Bangladesh and Zimbabwe from Murali's stats.

It's not mental gymnastics it's common bloody sense.

Unless you're suggesting that Rashid Khan our the best bowler ever.

It can be weighed accordingly. On the other hand, not being able to feast on minnows also a negative point, and should be taken against a player.

 

[Burgey]

As was mentioned yesterday, the reason many people don’t include murali in their AT sides is because they believe he chucked. It’s always been my view that even if he did, it’s not his fault he was cleared, so fair enough.

I don’t include him because off spinners are an awful species and because he was so bad here that he really should have been playing in the park on Syntho. He was tragically mediocre. Easily the worst “great” bowler to ever tour here.

 

[honestbharani]

As was mentioned yesterday, the reason many people don’t include murali in their AT sides is because they believe he chucked. It’s always been my view that even if he did, it’s not his fault he was cleared, so fair enough.

I don’t include him because off spinners are an awful species and because he was so bad here that he really should have been playing in the park on Syntho. He was tragically mediocre. Easily the worst “great” bowler to ever tour here.

He did not chuck but like I said earlier, I have more time for folks who actually rate Warne as the better bowler simply based on their actual bowling records. I have always rated Murali easily better but it is close enough between the two that I can see why some will rate Warne higher.

 

[Red]

You are deluded that I have proven your point and now it seems world is revolving around you fr a change. Leg spin is not the most difficult art. There are so many legspinners in sub continent as bowlers and it was never the rarest. Wrist spun off breaks are difficult, and any one who suggests it is as same as orthodox off breaks, has absolutely no idea of the dynamics of the bowling action and how it behaves through the air. There is no drift to work with, like in orthodox off breaks, and you cannot develop and orthodox slider (non spinning ball) as well. That art needs special skills like express fast bowling. Wrist spun off breaks is a different craft altogther, and Murali and Prasanna have mastered it in the past.

Why the attacks? "deluded...world revolving around" me? Where on earth does that come from?

Because I think leg spin is more difficult than off spin? So weird.

 

[Migara]

Why the attacks? "deluded...world revolving around" me? Where on earth does that come from?

Because I think leg spin is more difficult than off spin? So weird.

Nah because you think bowling wrist spun off breaks as easy as orthodox stuff. You know it, but for some strange reason don't want to say it.

 

[Red]

Nah because you think bowling wrist spun off breaks as easy as orthodox stuff. You know it, but for some strange reason don't want to say it.

But it is ACTUALLY easier to bowl off spin, bio-mechanically. Bowling over your wrist is much more difficult than bowling inside of it.

Murali was an offie who straightened his arm from the elbow (or used his deformity, whichever way you wanna look at it). I'm not going to say that's harder than bowling leggies over the wrist, because it's plainly and clearly not.

 

[Burgey]

He did not chuck but like I said earlier, I have more time for folks who actually rate Warne as the better bowler simply based on their actual bowling records. I have always rated Murali easily better but it is close enough between the two that I can see why some will rate Warne higher.

Yeah this is kind of how I feel about it too. That and the fact it’s just been done to ****ing death and I really CBF going over it all again unless it’s to wind Migara up

 

[Migara]

But it is ACTUALLY easier to bowl off spin, bio-mechanically. Bowling over your wrist is much more difficult than bowling inside of it.

Murali was an offie who straightened his arm from the elbow (or used his deformity, whichever way you wanna look at it). I'm not going to say that's harder than bowling leggies over the wrist, because it's plainly and clearly not.

So was Pollock and McGrath, more so than Muralitharan. And so was Warne when he delivered front of the hand. Everybody straightens their elbows barring Sarwan. As long as it is within 15 degrees, these accusations come under following.

 

[Migara]

Yeah this is kind of how I feel about it too. That and the fact it’s just been done to ****ing death and I really CBF going over it all again unless it’s to wind Migara up

As long as Ikki is not posting ****, I consider Warne and Murali to be equivalent as test bowlers.

 

[Burgey]

As long as Ikki is not posting ****, I consider Warne and Murali to be equivalent as test bowlers.

Urrrgh. Seriously the Chennai of posters.

 

[Burgey]

Sorry, the “City Which Dare Not Speak it’s Name Out of Over Sensitivity” of posters.

 

[jimmy101]

I thought it was widely agreed that leg spin is harder than off spin. I know for a fact when I let a few spinners fly in the nets, it's a lot harder to land leg breaks on a good length than it is with off breaks. Something about having the ball come out of the back of the hand I figure.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's definitely harder to master but that doesn't mean leg spinners deserve imaginary extra points when comparing then with offies. Otherwise I'd just go ahead and downgrade all left handed batsmen/bowlers a bit because they possess an inherent advantage when compared to right handers.

 

[Bolo.]

It's definitely harder to master but that doesn't mean leg spinners deserve imaginary extra points when comparing then with offies. Otherwise I'd just go ahead and downgrade all left handed batsmen/bowlers a bit because they possess an inherent advantage when compared to right handers.

Na. Its easier to bowl crap offspin, but it seems to be easier master legspin- the only offie possibly in the Grimmet/OReilly/Warne class is Laker, and I dont think he really belongs. Murali wasnt really an offie.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Ffs, Ikki hasn't been a regular poster in CC since before my time here and people still bring him up

We need a CW variant of Godwin's Law, where any user who compares somebody else or their posting to Ikki instantly loses the debate

 

[honestbharani]

Sorry, the “City Which Dare Not Speak it’s Name Out of Over Sensitivity” of posters.

you, of all people, should not talk about over-sensitivity.

 

[Burgey]

Ask the mods the last time I reported a post on here.

 

[Red]

So was Pollock and McGrath, more so than Muralitharan. And so was Warne when he delivered front of the hand. Everybody straightens their elbows barring Sarwan. As long as it is within 15 degrees, these accusations come under following.

View attachment 25033

My point is - leg-spin is harder to bowl than off-spin. Jeepers.

 

[Coronis]

Na. Its easier to bowl crap offspin, but it seems to be easier master legspin- the only offie possibly in the Grimmet/OReilly/Warne class is Laker, and I dont think he really belongs. Murali wasnt really an offie.

Hmm I’d put Verity in that class too. Still counts as an off spinner despite being leftie right?

 

[Spark]

Murali was a wrist-spinner. Whether the ball turned into the right-hander or away from the right-hander is surely much less important than the trajectory of his deliveries and # of revs he put on the ball was essentially equivalent to a quote-unquote "legspinner" because he used his wrist to impart force onto the ball, like a legspinner.

Certainly I would consider Murali much more like Warne in terms of what kind of spin bowler they were than like a Nathan Lyon, for example.