The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[ankitj]

Yeah Barnes at least faced Faulkner and Taylor in his 49 wicket series

Lohmann bowled when specialist bats usually averaged 25

That explains Lohmann's average and SR, but doesn't explain how he was getting big hauls. 5 ten-fers and 9 five-fers in just 18 matches.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah but you also thought Wasim was a first change bowler

And I acknowledged I was wrong and forgot. I distinctly him giving Haynes specifically, trouble with the new ball. But I also recall him coming back with the old ball and being a handful, thoughts just got muddled. But yes I recall Wasim and Waqar opening the bowling. Wasn't exactly yesterday and Waqar and Bishop were the speed guys back then that I adored with the new ball. No excuse though.

You however think that Sobers holds a tenuous spot on an all time team an is easily replaced by Imran and Miller. So we all make mistakes.

 

[Coronis]

Opening is a completely different gig to the middle order. This bias against Warner is just bs.

 

[Bolo.]

Of people not yet mentioned, Trueman is a fair call for best bowler ever, even if I rate him a little lower. His record is not that dissimilar to Steyns.

 

[honestbharani]

All these lists of the decade show that Jadeja is still massively under-rated by everyone. He has been the best all-rounder in this decade and still not even considered in anyone's team.

Warner, Cook, Williamson, Kohli, Smith, Shakib, Jadeja, Dhoni, Cummins, Steyn, Anderson will be my team. 3 pacers, 2 spinners and genuine batting upto 9.

Overkill with both Jadeja and Shakib in there especially when better spinners are available. Would replace Jadeja with stokes and move out Anderson for a better spinner.. Lyon or Ashwin.

 

[CricAddict]

You can't leave out de Villiers surely. I'm of the opinion - which admittedly goes against many of the Cribbian statistical measures I tend to value at least in rating modern day long careers - that his Test career is slightly overrated, but it's mostly definitely in the top four bats of the decade along with the Big 3 (assuming that Root has fallen away too much to qualify for that metric now). I think

Jadeja is definitely underrated as a player, but to some extent that's understandable when he flat out hasn't played a lot of overseas Tests. How can you be rated as one of the best players in the decade when your own team doesn't see fit to play you a lot of the time when conditions aren't entirely conducive to your style of cricket? It also means that his statistics need to be askterix'd compared to, say, Ashwin's, who gets no such luxuries and has played a decent number of Tests in very unhelpful conditions.

Hashim Amla is getting unduly ignored in these discussions too. More runs in the decade than any but Cook, Kohli, Smith and Root. If we assume de Villiers keeps, then you wouldn't go too far wrong with a top seven of the decade of

Cook
Warner
Amla
Smith
Kohli
Williamson
de Villiers

I recognise that slotting in those two at 6 in 7 is going to look quite strange, but Amla has been the best pure #3 of the decade IMO, and this is going to happen at this level. This is a legitimately exceptional top seven here, on par with the vast majority of ATG non-Bradman top sevens.

Yes, ABD is a really tough decision. Just like every other Indian, I like him too but that middle order is quite strong already. We can have him in place of Watling/Dhoni slightly weakening the keeping whie strengthening batting significantly or in place of Shakib/Jadeja and take the risk of going with just 4 bowlers.

He will make a marvellous 12th man though.

 

[CricAddict]

Opening is a completely different gig to the middle order. This bias against Warner is just bs.

I didn't see any bias anywhere. Which post are you referring to?

 

[CricAddict]

Overkill with both Jadeja and Shakib in there especially when better spinners are available. Would replace Jadeja with stokes and move out Anderson for a better spinner.. Lyon or Ashwin.

Yes, 2 left arm spinners give a very BD look which no one wants to, but I don't think Lyon is much superior to Jadeja. Stokes+Lyon is a less potent bowling line-up than Anderson+Jadeja.

 

[harsh.ag]

ABdV > Amla, so all of this is moot

 

[Red]

So telling Glen McGrath isn’t a Top 3 bowler is an inflammatory post.

What bull****

Lol

 

[Red]

Marshall, Hadlee and Steyn are the top three IMO.

McGrath, Ambrose, Donald, Imran and Trueman are slightly below the top three.

Lol

 

[honestbharani]

Yes, 2 left arm spinners give a very BD look which no one wants to, but I don't think Lyon is much superior to Jadeja. Stokes+Lyon is a less potent bowling line-up than Anderson+Jadeja.

Anderson + Jadeja is a lot more conditions dependent than Stokes + Lyon/Ashwin though. Plus I would say stronger batting.

 

[Spark]

Surely Anderson is the automatic 2nd picked fast bowler. I don't see how anyone else gets close to Steyn and Anderson over the course of the decade. The bloke has averaged ~22-23 for the last five years or something ridiculous like that.

EDIT: His last six yearly averages (since 2014): 22.1, 22.7, 23.7, 17.6, 22.5, 24.6. In what universe is he not picked every single time?

EDIT2: In the decade he has 427 wickets at 24. He only has marginally worse figures than Steyn in the time period with almost double the number of wickets. Like I said we really do overcomplicate things here sometimes.

 

[Coronis]

I didn't see any bias anywhere. Which post are you referring to?

All posts excluding Warner as an opener to be replaced with a middle order bat who is arguably not even a top 5 batsman of the decade.

 

[honestbharani]

Surely Anderson is the automatic 2nd picked fast bowler. I don't see how anyone else gets close to Steyn and Anderson over the course of the decade. The bloke has averaged ~22-23 for the last five years or something ridiculous like that.

EDIT: His last six yearly averages (since 2014): 22.1, 22.7, 23.7, 17.6, 22.5, 24.6. In what universe is he not picked every single time?

EDIT2: In the decade he has 427 wickets at 24. He only has marginally worse figures than Steyn in the time period with almost double the number of wickets. Like I said we really do overcomplicate things here sometimes.

In the universe where I like Cummins more.

But seriously yes, if we look at sustained performance over the decade, Anderson + Steyn is the bowling attack. So make it Stokes ahead of Cummins then.

 

[ankitj]

Yeah, why is Cummins even a contender? Just played 25 tests through the decade. He has been great in last 3 years but didn't play a game for 5-6 years after debut in 2011.

 

[CricAddict]

All posts excluding Warner as an opener to be replaced with a middle order bat who is arguably not even a top 5 batsman of the decade.

Completely agreed with you on this. Warner and Cook are 2 guys who have been successful opening in this Era where very few openers are having even moderate success.

They should be locks in the team.

 

[Logan]

This Decade

David Warner
Matches : 80
Average : 45
Strike Rate : 76
Centuries : 21

Alaistar Cook
Matches : 110
Average : 46
Strike Rate : 46
Centuries : 23


Warner should be the first choice as opener this decade.

 

[ankitj]

This Decade

David Warner
Matches : 80
Average : 45
Strike Rate : 76
Centuries : 21

Alaistar Cook
Matches : 110
Average : 46
Strike Rate : 76
Centuries : 23


Warner should be the first choice as opener this decade.

Cook and Warner have same strike rate?!!

 

[stephen]

Yeah, why is Cummins even a contender? Just played 25 tests through the decade. He has been great in last 3 years but didn't play a game for 5-6 years after debut in 2011.

He's a very good choice as the first change quick. I agree that there are better choices. Still, a case could be made based on his average and wpm as well as his usual first change bowling position.