The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[ataraxia]

From what I've read Cowie deserves a spot in NZ's XI

Boult has probably surpassed him nowadays, but he is certainly one of NZ's four best seamers. My NZ XI:

Dempster
Turner
Williamson*
Crowe
Fleming/Taylor/Sutcliffe/Donnelly
Reid - 5
McCullum +
Hadlee - 1
Vettori - 4
Bond - 3
Boult - 2

Bracewell

Not too strong but on their day this bowling attack can sure strike. For those who don't know Stewie Dempster, he was an opener in NZ Test cricket's very early days, participating in NZ's first test. He still averages the second-most out of everyone to have played at least 10 tests.

 

[the big bambino]

Donald is criminally underrated around here IMO

It’s offset by criminally overrating Bond as a test bowler.

 

[ataraxia]

It’s offset by criminally overrating Bond as a test bowler.

He averaged 22 and struck at 39. Aside from Hadlee, NZ haven't had a bowler like him ever. I have never seen an NZ XI since his retirement which doesn't include him.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

It’s offset by criminally overrating Bond as a test bowler.

Sort of. Bond is maybe a touch overrated in tests, but I have always had a lot of time for bowlers who are fast and hostile but perpetually injured.

 

[ankitj]

Pujara has to be in the starting 11, batting is far too weak. Would rather have Rabada opening the bowling too.

Mrmr modeled it on the English #BatDeep philosophy.

 

[the big bambino]

He averaged 22 and struck at 39. Aside from Hadlee, NZ haven't had a bowler like him ever. I have never seen an NZ XI since his retirement which doesn't include him.

If only irfan Pathan could quarantine his test stats to mainly BD and Zim - ATG! Someone like Percy Freeman has greater claim to ATG status than Bond.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If only irfan Pathan could quarantine his test stats to mainly BD and Zim - ATG! Someone like Percy Freeman has greater claim to ATG status than Bond.

Did Bond play mostly against minnows? That would be news to me. I rate him very highly due to his several unplayable spells with the white ball vs Aus.

 

[ataraxia]

If only irfan Pathan could quarantine his test stats to mainly BD and Zim - ATG! Someone like Percy Freeman has greater claim to ATG status than Bond.

I'm a fan of Tich but you're comparing apples and oranges. A 1900s/1910s stalwart English spinner doesn't compare to an injurystruck 2000s NZ pacer. The key thing is comparing him with other NZ pacers like Cowie. I don't think I'm overvaluing Bond; I haven't even got him with the new ball, unusual in an NZ XI.

 

[harsh.ag]

Cairns is a lock for the NZ XI in my books. One of the great all-rounders. Perhaps gets underrated being at the same time as the proliferation of bits and pieces cricketers. As good as Boult with the ball. No reason to not have him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He gets underrated because he's a fixer. Probably not that unfair tbh.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I only started doing the Home and Away ATG India teams for a couple of reasons:
- Up until Bumrah and co, we just haven't had a team that could take 20 wickets abroad. Imagine an ATG India side pre-2016 (Kapil, Srinath, Zaheer?) vs an ATG Windies or ATG Australia or ATG South Africa side. It would be like...well, it would be the 90s all over again. The batsmen will do okay, but they can only hold out so long - and presumably in a contest of two ATG sides, it's not like you can just see off Donald/Pollock and then go after Paul Adams...you'll have to then face Steyn. And Rabada, etc. There's no respite.

- I don't think it's quite an issue for most other teams, but some specific tweaks may be required - e.g. despite playing everywhere else, Australia would probably want to drop Warne vs India, but will want Hayden to open (possibly?).

- Think of it more like, instead of an ATG XI, you're taking your country's ATG squad composed of 15-16 players or whatever, and in an ICC Test Championship tour like now, you choose the XI you need for the conditions. As I mentioned, some will remain the same, but you could a few tweaks here and there.
India ATG headed to South Africa to face South Africa ATG? We definitely don't need 2-3 spin bowlers when 1 will do, but having a four-pronged pace attack would be much better.
Playing at home vs England ATG? Get those spinners on them.

 

[a massive zebra]

If only irfan Pathan could quarantine his test stats to mainly BD and Zim - ATG! Someone like Percy Freeman has greater claim to ATG status than Bond.

Percy Freeman? Tich to his friends...

 

[Coronis]

Percy Freeman? Tich to his friends...

Didn’t realise you two were so close.

 

[stephen]

Of all the Australian spinners to take to India, I'd place Warne 4th behind O'Reilly, Benaud and Lyon. Tiger was stylistically similar to Kumble, which makes me believe he would succeed in India. Benaud and Lyon have both been highly successful in India and Warne is next in line because I believe he could have been successful if circumstances had been a little different. Grimmett basically bowled like Warne but wasn't as good, so he's in 5th place.

Of course, conditions in Benaud's day were not as challenging as they were in Warne's era. He never had to bowl to Tendulkar for example. But runs on the board, as they say.

 

[stephen]

Oh and Hayden would make my number 1 Australian side everywhere, partnered with Trumper.

 

[stephen]

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman
Smith
G Chappell
Border*
Gilchrist+
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

12th: O'Reilly

Bench strength XI:

Simpson
Lawry
Ponting
Harvey
S Waugh*
Miller
Healy+
O'Reilly
Grimmett
Lindwall
McDermott

12th: Clarke

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'd take a lot of others to India ahead of Warne tbh

 

[mr_mister]

Grimmett and Ironmonger would deserve a crack before proven Indian failure Warne walks into the side

 

[TheJediBrah]

Pure speculation but from what I've heard of Ironmonger he would have been tailor-made for Indian conditions. Like Jadeja but better.

 

[harsh.ag]

Of all the Australian spinners to take to India, I'd place Warne 4th behind O'Reilly, Benaud and Lyon. Tiger was stylistically similar to Kumble, which makes me believe he would succeed in India. Benaud and Lyon have both been highly successful in India and Warne is next in line because I believe he could have been successful if circumstances had been a little different. Grimmett basically bowled like Warne but wasn't as good, so he's in 5th place.

Of course, conditions in Benaud's day were not as challenging as they were in Warne's era. He never had to bowl to Tendulkar for example. But runs on the board, as they say.

SoK 4th