The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[NUFAN]

Yeah very enjoyable read Watson. I like how you made your justifications as the players you often talked about were the players I was most curious as to why you included them.

I have to ask you though Watson, what does Herath have to do to be included? I'm suspecting that you wanted 3 quicks and figured de Silva, Samareewa and Jayasuriya could offer some spin support for Murali.

[watson]

Originally Posted by NUFAN

Yeah very enjoyable read Watson. I like how you made your justifications as the players you often talked about were the players I was most curious as to why you included them.

I have to ask you though Watson, what does Herath have to do to be included? I'm suspecting that you wanted 3 quicks and figured de Silva, Samareewa and Jayasuriya could offer some spin support for Murali.

I guess that was the thinking - on a turning wicket Samaraweera and Jayasuriya would be able to give ample support to Murali. And on a seaming wicket the team has 3 quicks.

However, my knowledge of Sri Lankan cricket is not good, so I could be easily persuaded with Herath.

[watson]

Originally Posted by marc71178

Really? 3 wickets per match?

I think that this is fertile ground for a new thread: 'Who was the better bowler - Keith Miller or Ian Botham?' Would you like to start it marc?

Now that I think about it a young Ian Botham was impressive. So now I'm not so sure. However, Keith Miller's average as a new ball bowler was 22.97, that's pretty damned good.

But the main point remains - Ian Botham did not cope well with 2 quality fast-bowlers operating at either end. Holding and Roberts, then Holding and Marshall simply took him apart. The same can be said of Akram and Waqar. Just check out his average against the West Indies - 21.40 over 20 Test matches is not good enough for a No.6 batsman.

[Jager]

That's in relation to batting though watson - reckon Miller's head and shoulders higher as a bowler regardless though.

[Jager]

Originally Posted by rvd619323

From everything I've read, he was never described as a medium pacer. I think he was a bit above mid-range in terms of pace.

I always imagined him as someone who bowled at about ~130 clicks.

[watson]

Originally Posted by Jager

I always imagined him as someone who bowled at about ~130 clicks.

Judging from the footage I've seen I'd agree with that. Not quite as fast as Wasim Akram though.

[AndyZaltzHair]

I think there is one 4- minute video of Davidson bowling, he looked 135-ish; hard to judge though

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by watson

Now that I think about it a young Ian Botham was impressive. So now I'm not so sure. However, Keith Miller's average as a new ball bowler was 22.97, that's pretty damned good.

Yes until you see how few wickets relatively speaking he took for the number of games he played.

If my new ball bowler (and pseudo God looking at the way some people seem to treat him, building an AT side around him FFS) only took 3 wickets a match he wouldn't be my new ball bowler for long.

[Jager]

The man was a mercurial genius with a body irreparably damaged by war - what a physique he had though and what courage to bowl through the agony in his back - he used to push a disc back into place at the top of his run up before unleashing another thunderbolt

[Jager]

What I am saying Marc is that had he not been crippled by his wartime antics to the point where he was unable to bowl in some matches, he would have taken 5+ wickets a match. Obviously didn't though because of his back, but one can only dream of the havoc he would have caused if not for the war - same applies to the great Hedley Verity

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Jager

What I am saying Marc is that had he not been crippled by his wartime antics to the point where he was unable to bowl in some matches, he would have taken 5+ wickets a match. Obviously didn't though because of his back, but one can only dream of the havoc he would have caused if not for the war - same applies to the great Hedley Verity

Would you give the same benefit of doubt to other players whose careers were cut short by injury?

Would you rate Shane Bond higher than Miller then?

[Prince EWS]

Here's an all-time eleven consisting purely of players who played for New South Wales:

1. Bob Simpson
2. Victor Trumper
3. Don Bradman
4. Neil Harvey
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Alan Davidson
9. Ray Lindwall
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Glenn McGrath

Others: Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor, Arthur Morris, Michael Clarke, Doug Walters, Richie Benaud, Charlie Turner, Monty Noble, Fred Spofforth, Richard Quee Chee etc etc.

A lot of those guys played for other states as well, and some of them weren't even primarily New South Wales players so I'm basically just pulling my dick, but I thought I'd toss it out there so fellow Blues could do the same.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Here's an all-time eleven consisting purely of players who played for New South Wales:

1. Bob Simpson
2. Victor Trumper
3. Don Bradman
4. Neil Harvey
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Alan Davidson
9. Ray Lindwall
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Glenn McGrath

Others: Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor, Arthur Morris, Michael Clarke, Doug Walters, Richie Benaud, Charlie Turner, Monty Noble, Fred Spofforth, Richard Quee Chee etc etc.

A lot of those guys played for other states as well, and some of them weren't even primarily New South Wales players so I'm basically just pulling my dick, but I thought I'd toss it out there so fellow Blues could do the same.

If you want to limit it to those who actually grew up in and debuted for the state then all you need to do is sub in Steve Waugh or possibly Richie Benaud for Keith Miller; he's the only one who's really "cheaty".

Border and Gilchrist are definitely more known for their work with other states but they were legitimate products of NSW who got poached.

[Monk]

Victorian XI

Bill Lawry
Bill Woodfull
Neil Harvey
Lindsay Hassett
Bill Ponsford
Warwick Armstrong
Billy Murdoch
Shane Warne
Merv Hughes
Damian Fleming
Bill Johnstone

Paul Reiffel


Notes-
- A lot of Bills
- Batting good, bowling a lot weaker than NSW

[8ankitj]

Since I am bored, here are my teams:

Australia XI: Simpson, Ponsford, Bradman, Ponting, Chappel, Gilchrist, Miller, Davidson, Warne, Lillee, McGrath

England XI: Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Compton, Barrington, Botham, Ames, Trueman, Barnes, Laker, Lohmann

India XI: Gavaskar, Merchant, Dravid, Tendulkar, Hazare, Dhoni, Mankad, Dev, Kumble, Nissar, Prasanna

Pakistan XI: Anwar, Hanif, Miandad, Abbas, Inzamam, Imran, Lateef, Akram, Younis, Mahmood, Qadir

South Africa XI: Richards, Mitchell, Kallis, G. Pollock, Nourse, Lindsay, S. Pollock, Procter, Steyn, Tayfield, Donald

West Indies XI: Greenidge, Worrell, Lara, Headley, Richards, Sobers, Dujon, Marshall, Ambrose, Garner, Holding