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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #61
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Most seem to be picking Tayfield - interesting. I excluded him because I reckon Faulkner would do more than enough to warrant being the only spinner in a South African side. South Africa has always favoured less rather than more spin and I reckon that adding a second spinner over another gun fast bowler isn't right for a South African ATXI.
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  3. #63
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    But wasn't Faulkner more of a batting all rounder whose bowling stats benefitted from the matting pitches. Could be wrong though.
    1st XI
    Hutton | Hobbs | Bradman* | Richards^ | Tendulkar | Sobers5^ | Gilchrist+ | Khan3 | Marshall1 | Warne4^ | McGrath2
    2nd XI
    Sutcliffe | Gavaskar* | Headley | Chappell^ | Lara^ | Kallis5^ | Knott+ | Hadlee3 | Ambrose2 | Lillee1 | Muralitharan4
    3rd XI
    Greenidge | Richards^ | Ponting^ | Pollock | Hammond^ | Worrell5* | Waite+ | Akram3 | Steyn1 | Holding2 | O'Reilly4
    4th XI
    Morris | Simpson^ | Sangakkara | Weekes^ | Border*^ | Walcott+ | Faulkner5 | Laker4 | Trueman1 | Garner3 | Donald2

  4. #64
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    But wasn't Faulkner more of a batting all rounder whose bowling stats benefitted from the matting pitches. Could be wrong though.
    From his Wisden Obituary:
    "For the team of 1912 he made 1,075 runs and obtained 163 wickets. Although at the beginning of his career, particularly at the time when he first became prominent in South African Inter-State cricket in 1906, he was of little value as a batsman, he became as the years passed, almost as great a batsman as he was a bowler."


  5. #65
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    You have to look at the batting averages of contemporaries in Faulkner's time. I'd say a batting average of 40 in his time was almost as good as 50 in later eras. Correspondingly, his bowling average of 25 perhaps equivalent of 30-32 in other eras.

    And Tayfield is a little under-rated IMO. Got plenty of fivers in not that many games.
    Last edited by ankitj; 08-09-2012 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #66
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Interesting thinking there Prez - I actually think you might be onto something there.

    Tayfield is in the Grimmett mould for me - not the most astounding strike rates for them both because they weren't enormous turners of the ball, but they both possessed superb accuracy and could grind down even the finest of batsmen
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  7. #67
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    You have to look at the batting averages of contemporaries in Faulkner's time. I'd say a batting average of 40 in his time was almost as good as 50 in later eras. Correspondingly, his bowling average of 25 perhaps equivalent of 30-32 in other eras.

    And Tayfield is a little under-rated IMO. Got plenty of fivers in not that many games.
    Awta

  8. #68
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    I'll take a shot at the Pakistan ATXI

    Hanif Mohammad
    Saeed Anwar
    Inzamam ul Haq
    Javed Miandad
    Mohammad Yousuf
    Salim Malik
    Imran Khan (c)
    Wasim Bari
    Wasim Akram
    Waqar Younis
    Saqlain/Ajmal/Qadir

    12th Man: Shoaib Akhtar

    A pretty formidable line up
    Smali surprise exclusion of Zaheer Abbas there; I think he's one of the best bats for Pakistan and deserves to be in Pak ATG XI although the sheer weight of middle order makes it tough as to where he would play; for me, Javed Miandad and Inzamam got to be there in the middle order so that leaves another two more spots; Javed at 4 and Inzi at 5 leaves a space for Abbas at 3. It looks somewhat wrong to bat Yousuf at 6 but I think there's little option than this-

    Hanif
    Anwar
    Abbas
    Miandad
    Inzamam
    Yousuf
    Last edited by AndyZaltzHair; 08-09-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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  9. #69
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    The prevailing thought on Abbas through out his career was that he wasn't fond of fast bowling, and Marshall out right said that Abbas was afraid.
    Record not that outstanding either, plus Smali is the resident expert so I would trust his judgement on this.

  10. #70
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyZaltzHair View Post
    Smali surprise exclusion of Zaheer Abbas there; I think he's one of the best bats for Pakistan and deserves to be in Pak ATG XI although the sheer weight of middle order makes it tough as to where he would play; for me, Javed Miandad and Inzamam got to be there in the middle order so that leaves another two more spots; Javed at 4 and Inzi at 5 leaves a space for Abbas at 3. It looks somewhat wrong to bat Yousuf at 6 but I think there's little option than this-

    Hanif
    Anwar
    Abbas
    Miandad
    Inzamam
    Yousuf
    Salim Malik is one of the more under rated Pak players (match fixing doesn't help his cause ) he was a very good player of spin bowling (not good as Zaheer probably) and definitely better than Abbas against pace bowling. Besides Salim Malik fits very nicely into the number 6 position since he used to bat in the lower middle order. As NUFAN pointed out that rather than just cramming good players into the team it is important that the team be balanced. Keeping Malik into the side allows the other players to bat in their preferred spots. He has a record similar to Abbas as well. Hence Saleem Malik over Abbas.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    The prevailing thought on Abbas through out his career was that he wasn't fond of fast bowling, and Marshall out right said that Abbas was afraid.
    Record not that outstanding either, plus Smali is the resident expert so I would trust his judgement on this.
    I didn't watch Zaheer Abbas bat too much but I do rely a lot on Imran's opinion of him which matches that of Marshall's. Apparently Zaheer could be easily intimidated and with Imran as captain of the side that won't be tolerated.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  11. #71
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    The prevailing thought on Abbas through out his career was that he wasn't fond of fast bowling, and Marshall out right said that Abbas was afraid.
    Record not that outstanding either, plus Smali is the resident expert so I would trust his judgement on this.
    He was very easy on the eye was Zaheer and at his best looked unstoppable, but he was prone to lapses of form which did seem to coincide when the oppo had some top class pace bowling

    Mushy was a class act, with bat and ball, and I'd consider him for an all time Pak XI

  12. #72
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Yes, Mushtaq Mohammad would be a very good option as a good lower order bat and a fifth bowling option which Smali's team lacks.

  13. #73
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Bradman's Best XI
    A. Morris
    B. Richards
    D. Bradman
    S. Tendulkar
    G. Sobers
    D. Tallon
    R. Lindwall
    D. Lillee
    A. Bedser
    B. O'Reilly
    C. Grimmett
    12th- W. Hammond

    Benaud's Best XI
    J. Hobbs
    S. Gavaskar
    D. Bradman
    V. Richards
    S. Tendulkar
    G. Sobers
    I. Khan
    A. Gilchrist
    S. Warne
    D. Lillee
    S. Barnes
    12th- K. Miller
    Last edited by Monk; 08-09-2012 at 05:52 PM.
    Hutton - Gavaskar - Bradman - Ten Dollar Carl - V.Richards - Sobers - Knott - Warne - Marshall - Lillee - Ambrose

  14. #74
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Harsh on a guy who hit 3 double centuries and was tagged as Asian Bradman once, reasonable record against Australia and outstanding record against England, great periods for Gloucestershire and made tons of runs for them but I guess his poor record against West Indies sometimes doesn't help the cause.

  15. #75
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    He was very easy on the eye was Zaheer and at his best looked unstoppable, but he was prone to lapses of form which did seem to coincide when the oppo had some top class pace bowling

    Mushy was a class act, with bat and ball, and I'd consider him for an all time Pak XI
    Hmm....you're right. I didn't consider Mushtaq M. Didn't watch him much either.

    Fred, did you watch Imran's older cousin Majid Khan bat? Apparently he was a very very good player of fast bowling. I think he even gets mentioned by either Viv or Colin Croft in Fire in Babylon. How good was Majid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Bradman's Best XI
    A. Morris
    B. Richards
    D. Bradman
    S. Tendulkar
    G. Sobers
    D. Tallon
    R. Lindwall
    D. Lillee
    A. Bedser
    B. O'Reilly
    C. Grimmett
    12th- W. Hammond

    Benaud's Best XI
    J. Hobbs
    S. Gavaskar
    D. Bradman
    V. Richards
    S. Tendulkar
    G. Sobers
    I. Khan
    A. Gilchrist
    S. Warne
    D. Lillee
    S. Barnes
    12th- K. Miller
    benaud's XI seems much better

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