The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

Which bowler would you drop?

Edit: change made.

I propose that if/when we run a sim that these teams can be used as the base for selections with what ever changes are recomended.

[Jager]

Massive thanks to Monk for recommending that DVD. Jock Cameron's wicketkeeping skills are unbelievable from this footage... keeping to spin, he's throwing the ball back to the bowler and the batsman is still completing his shot!

[kyear2]

And he averaged over 30 with the bat. So vote gained then?

[Jager]

Originally Posted by kyear2

And he averaged over 30 with the bat. So vote gained then?

He'll be getting the 3+1 points in my voting system... we'll see about the rest though!

[L Trumper]

Originally Posted by kyear2

Australia All Time XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Bill O’Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Glen Mcgrath

West Indies XI

Gordon Greenidge
Conrad Hunte
George Headley
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Clyde Walcott
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding
Lance Gibbs

South Africa All Time XI

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Shaun Pollock
Mike Procter
Jon Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

England All Time XI

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
Harold Larwood
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

Pakistan All Time XI

Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzaman Ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Imran Khan
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Abdul Qadir
Waqar Younis

India All Time XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Erapalli Prasanna
Mohammad Nissar

Sri Lanka All Time XI

Marvan Atapattu
Sanath Jayasuriya
Kumar Sangakkara
Aravinda De Silva
Mahela Jayawardene
Arjuna Ranatunga
Prasanna Jayawardene
Chaminda Vaas
Rumesh Ratnayake
Ashantha de Mel
Muttiah Muralitharan

New Zealand All Time XI

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John Reid
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Best of The Rest XI

Herbert Sutcliffe
Vijay Merchant
Ricky Ponting
Everton Weekes
Neil Harvey
Frank Worrell
Les Ames
Ray Lindwall
Hedley Verity
Joel Garner
Dale Steyn

Lot of time and research using consensus views to assemble these teams. Let me know of proposed changes.

Wow! Brilliant teams all around, Only disagreements I have are VVS and Trumper for Hazare and Morris. Astoundingly I am in agreement with everyone else. Great job for all the teams.
Also England (lower)middle order Compton/Botham/Knott is iffy to say the least.

[Eds]

West Indies XI is so tough. I'd probably go for something like this.

Greenidge
Worrell
Headley
Lara
Richards
Sobers
Walcott
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner

[kyear2]

Worrell is temping, and he did open, but it sorta feels like cheating to me.

[kyear2]

Originally Posted by L Trumper

Wow! Brilliant teams all around, Only disagreements I have are VVS and Trumper for Hazare and Morris. Astoundingly I am in agreement with everyone else. Great job for all the teams.
Also England (lower)middle order Compton/Botham/Knott is iffy to say the least.

Statistically speaking Trumper was much better in the middle order than opening and Morris was a key opener for the invincibles and offers that rh/lh combination at the top.
Hazare was a great batsman in his own right and a handy bowler, the only edge that I can see for VVS is in the slip cordon.

[Jager]

Just watched an interview with Bradman who said with absolute certainty that Jack Gregory was as fast as the bowlers of today. Great action too, the way he skips to the left of the crease in his delivery stride and slings the ball down.

[Flametree]

Originally Posted by kyear2

Worrell is temping, and he did open, but it sorta feels like cheating to me.

Whenever I think about an all-time Windies team I cheat twice (three times if playing Walcott as a keeper counts...) Pick a top-7 of Headley, Lara, Richards, Sobers, Walcott, Weekes, Worrell (in alpha order), then let them draw straws to see who opens...

[Jager]

Australia
1. Bob Simpson
2. Victor Trumper
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Keith Miller*
6. Allan Border
7. Don Tallon †
8. Alan Davidson
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O'Reilly

12. Glen McGrath

Notes: The hardest decision of this XI is the two pacemen - with Miller naturally the third and two spinners, it comes down to personal preference. My heart says Lindwall but my brain says that the beating heart of the attack always has to be Lillee, someone who has skyrocketed in my eyes as of late.

England
1. Jack Hobbs
2. Herbert Sutcliffe
3. Len Hutton
4. Wally Hammond
5. Denis Compton
6. Douglas Jardine*
7. Alan Knott †
8. Hedley Verity
9. Harold Larwood
10. Fred Trueman
11. Sydney Barnes

12. Frank Woolley

Notes: Laker unlucky to miss out... would be a good addition to move the ball the other way to Barnes.

Pakistan
1. Saeed Anwar
2. Hanif Mohammad
3. Inzamam-ul-Haq
4. Javed Miandad
5. Zaheer Abbas
6. Mohammad Yousuf
7. Imran Khan*
8. Wasim Akram
9. Saqlain Mushtaq
10. Wasim Bari †
11. Fazal Mahmood

12. Waqar Younis

Notes: Kills me to leave Fazal out. Heart says Fazal. Screw it, he's in. Even though I believe Waqar to be better than Wasim, he misses out for left-arm variation and batting - he brings the same qualities as Wasim anyway. Fazal gives better variation!

South Africa
1. Bruce Mitchell
2. Barry Richards
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse*
6. Aubrey Faulkner
7. John Waite †
8. Mike Procter
9. Hugh Tayfield
10. Allan Donald
11. Dale Steyn

12. Graeme Smith

Notes: Tough on Herbie Taylor

West Indies
1. Gordon Greenidge
2. Frank Worrell*
3. George Headley
4. Brian Lara
5. Viv Richards
6. Garfield Sobers
7. Jeff Dujon †
8. Malcolm Marshall
9. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

12. Andy Roberts

Notes: Take your pick from the plethora of quicks available.

India
1. Virender Sehwag
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Vijay Hazare
6. VVS Laxman
7. Farohk Engineer †
8. Kapil Dev*
9. Zaheer Khan
10. Erapalli Prasanna
11. Subhash Gupte

12. Vinoo Mankad

Notes: The simplest side to select. Mankad as twelfth man to sub in if the four-pronged bowling attack is struggling on a tour, but with Sehwag, Hazare and Tendulkar there are three bowlers to cover for a fifth.

New Zealand
1. Glenn Turner
2. Stewie Dempster
3. Bert Sutcliffe
4. Martin Crowe
5. Martin Donnelly
6. John Reid
7. Richard Hadlee
8. Daniel Vettori
9. Ian Smith †
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie

12. Chris Cairns

Notes: kyear on the money

Sri Lanka
1. Marvan Atapattu
2. Sanath Jayasuriya
3. Kumar Sangakkara
4. Aravinda De Silva
5. Mahela Jayawardene*
6. Arjuna Ranatunga
7. Prasanna Jayawardene †
8. Chaminda Vaas
9. Rumesh Ratnayake
10. Ashantha de Mel
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

Notes: Weakest bowling lineup by far... I just went for kyear's team.

[Mike5181]

I'd never have Daniel Vettori in an all-time eleven. His bowling barely challenges test standard batsmen, let alone all-time greats. Chris Cairns would be a better option.

New Zealand
1. Glenn Turner
2. Stewie Dempster
3. Bert Sutcliffe
4. Martin Crowe
5. Martin Donnelly
6. John Reid
7. Christopher Cairns
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Ian Smith †
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie

[fredfertang]

Stephen Boock, in my opinion anyway, was a much better bowler than his stats suggest so if you wanted an NZ spin option I'd go for him, and indeed Hedley Howarth before Vettori - fine player though the latter is

[Mike5181]

Originally Posted by fredfertang

Stephen Boock, in my opinion anyway, was a much better bowler than his stats suggest so if you wanted an NZ spin option I'd go for him, and indeed Hedley Howarth before Vettori - fine player though the latter is

Howarth over Vettori? I don't think so.

[fredfertang]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

Howarth over Vettori? I don't think so.

What is your view on Boock?