The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[MrPrez]

I understand it's an opinion, but so too is "club cricket is more enjoyable to watch than Test cricket" - if you're of this opinion, it is due to the lower quality that you enjoy it. If that makes sense. Likewise, I reckon anyone who prefers olden cricket aesthetics to the modern parallel feels that way because of the less aesthetic nature of the game due to inferior technique, power etc.

I realize the above doesn't really make sense but I hope people can understand what I'm trying to say.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by MrPrez

I understand it's an opinion, but so too is "club cricket is more enjoyable to watch than Test cricket" - if you're of this opinion, it is due to the lower quality that you enjoy it. If that makes sense. Likewise, I reckon anyone who prefers olden cricket aesthetics to the modern parallel feels that way because of the less aesthetic nature of the game due to inferior technique, power etc.

I realize the above doesn't really make sense but I hope people can understand what I'm trying to say.

I get what you are saying.

I think there have always been the "club the ball" types, with "lesser" techniques than those who look aesthetically pleasing. And in each era there are the more elegant players, the ones who play the late cuts and the cover drives and the leg glances.

In older days the big hitters were called "forcing batsmen". Vic Richardson was introduced as one by Bill Woodful. So not all olden days cricket was aesthetically pleasing to the purist.

But I do think there is a tendency to look upon those older day players who were elegant as something very special, when there are many today who would rival them in aesthetics. Mike Hussey has as good a cover drive as I've seen, and I can't imagine Hammond's would've been a lot better, if it was better at all...

[Monk]

Okay, I think I've settled on my England all time XI...

01. J. Hobbs
02. W.G. Grace (7)
03. K.S. Ranjitsinhji
04. W. Hammond (5)
05. D. Compton
06. F. Woolley (6)
07. I. Botham (4)
08. A. Knott
09. F. Trueman (1)
10. G. Lohmann (2)
11. S. F. Barnes (3)

12. H. Verity

...to face my Australian all time XI:

01. A. Morris
02. B. Simpson
03. D. Bradman
04. G. Chappell
05. V. Trumper
06. R. Ponting/ N. Harvey
07. A. Gilchrist
08. R. Lindwall
09. S. Warne
10. D. Lillee
11. G. McGrath

12. K .Miller

[Eds]

So harsh on Miller, Sutcliffe, Hutton.

[Cabinet96]

Originally Posted by fredfertang

Hammond was an imperious batsman, with that famous cover drive that Zaremba uses as his current avatar, but I certainly don't suppose he was better to watch than the most stylish of recent years, Lara in particular. But I do bear in mind that generally those guys batted with wands rather than railway sleepers, and their whole approach was different - there is, for example, quite a bit of footage of Denis Compton around - incredibly easy on the eye, but I simply don't believe he would/could have batted like that today

I think this the key. I just prefer the way modern techniques look. That's not to say I don't appreciate how the players from the past could have been viewed as incredibly stylish, I just don't particularly prefer them to modern day bats. Its probably unfair for someone of my age commenting on such a matter, because 99% of footage I've seen is from the modern day, but I've never seen any past footage of a batsmen which I find more pleasing on the eye than Martyn, Bell, de Villiers or Kohli.

Originally Posted by rvd619323

I'd love to watch Jack Hobbs' technique rather than even the best batsman's 'plant the foot and hit' style of the modern day.

I actually prefer those 'plant the foot and drive' style that is grooved from the bowling machine. I can see why you'd prefer watching the old bats though.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by Eds

So harsh on Miller, Sutcliffe, Hutton.

True Eds.

I've included Miller as a twelfth. I just think the Australian XI is stronger with the three quicks and one spinner, as well as six batsmen (Simmo and Chappell can bowl a few overs). I'm torn with Miller!

Sutcliffe and Hutton are competing for the same spot, as partner to Hobbs. I included Grace over both, primarily for the fact that he was considered the greatest for a long time a baton he passed on to Trumper/Hobbs, then Bradman.

Here's an interesting conversation point for stats nerds....

Should an ATG team's bowling attack have a bowling attack whose cumulative wickets per test adds up to 20+?

[Monk]

And my WIs XI:


01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Desmond Haynes
03. Frank Worrell/ Rohan Kanhai
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Clyde Walcott
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

[JBMAC]

Originally Posted by Monk

And my WIs XI:


01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Desmond Haynes
03. Frank Worrell/ Rohan Kanhai
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Clyde Walcott
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

WTF? No Headley

[kyear2]

Correct, the more I research, read and watch old clips, I am convinced that he along with Sobers are the best W.I batsmen and the best over all after Bradman. Viv at his best was their equal and faced the best bowlers, but his peak was the shortest, Lara was their equal as well, but was inconsistent and mecurial. All Four though were absolutely amazing though and among the top 10 batsmen of all time.

[kyear2]

Australia All Time XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Bill O’Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Glen Mcgrath

West Indies XI

Gordon Greenidge
Conrad Hunte
George Headley
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Clyde Walcott
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding
Lance Gibbs

South Africa All Time XI

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Shaun Pollock
Mike Procter
Jon Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

England All Time XI

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
Harold Larwood
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

Pakistan All Time XI

Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzaman Ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Imran Khan
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Abdul Qadir
Waqar Younis

India All Time XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Erapalli Prasanna
Mohammad Nissar

Sri Lanka All Time XI

Marvan Atapattu
Sanath Jayasuriya
Kumar Sangakkara
Aravinda De Silva
Mahela Jayawardene
Arjuna Ranatunga
Prasanna Jayawardene
Chaminda Vaas
Rumesh Ratnayake
Ashantha de Mel
Muttiah Muralitharan

New Zealand All Time XI

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John Reid
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Best of The Rest XI

Herbert Sutcliffe
Vijay Merchant
Ricky Ponting
Everton Weekes
Neil Harvey
Frank Worrell
Les Ames
Ray Lindwall
Hedley Verity
Joel Garner
Dale Steyn

Lot of time and research using consensus views to assemble these teams. Let me know of proposed changes.

[NUFAN]

Really great teams kyear, on the whole I agree with many of your thoughts, I in particular love the Windies XI.

I don't really like the SL team, Sanga, keeping and batting at 3 is tough.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by JBMAC

WTF? No Headley

Not wacko, just an oversight~!


01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Desmond Haynes
03. George Headley
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Clyde Walcott
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

[Monk]

New Zealand All Time XI

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John F. Reid
Richard Hadlee
Chris Cairns/Dan Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie


I think this side would surprise a few of the higher ranked sides. Hadlee, Bond and Cowie are an excellent pace trio.

Cairns/Vettori to battle over the last spot. Cairns would give a bit of x-factor to the batting. NZ haven't ever produced a GREAT spinner.

[Jager]

NZ did produce Grimmett - lucky we stole him!

[Jager]

Originally Posted by NUFAN

Really great teams kyear, on the whole I agree with many of your thoughts, I in particular love the Windies XI.

I don't really like the SL team, Sanga, keeping and batting at 3 is tough.

Agreed, Sanga stays at 3 but Prassana to take the gloves IMO.