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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #676
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    I understand it's an opinion, but so too is "club cricket is more enjoyable to watch than Test cricket" - if you're of this opinion, it is due to the lower quality that you enjoy it. If that makes sense. Likewise, I reckon anyone who prefers olden cricket aesthetics to the modern parallel feels that way because of the less aesthetic nature of the game due to inferior technique, power etc.

    I realize the above doesn't really make sense but I hope people can understand what I'm trying to say.
    @CowsCorner - 202 followers and counting!

    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.

  2. #677
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    I understand it's an opinion, but so too is "club cricket is more enjoyable to watch than Test cricket" - if you're of this opinion, it is due to the lower quality that you enjoy it. If that makes sense. Likewise, I reckon anyone who prefers olden cricket aesthetics to the modern parallel feels that way because of the less aesthetic nature of the game due to inferior technique, power etc.

    I realize the above doesn't really make sense but I hope people can understand what I'm trying to say.
    I get what you are saying.

    I think there have always been the "club the ball" types, with "lesser" techniques than those who look aesthetically pleasing. And in each era there are the more elegant players, the ones who play the late cuts and the cover drives and the leg glances.

    In older days the big hitters were called "forcing batsmen". Vic Richardson was introduced as one by Bill Woodful. So not all olden days cricket was aesthetically pleasing to the purist.

    But I do think there is a tendency to look upon those older day players who were elegant as something very special, when there are many today who would rival them in aesthetics. Mike Hussey has as good a cover drive as I've seen, and I can't imagine Hammond's would've been a lot better, if it was better at all...
    Hutton - Gavaskar - Bradman - Ten Dollar Carl - V.Richards - Sobers - Knott - Warne - Marshall - Lillee - Ambrose

  3. #678
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Okay, I think I've settled on my England all time XI...

    01. J. Hobbs
    02. W.G. Grace (7)
    03. K.S. Ranjitsinhji
    04. W. Hammond (5)
    05. D. Compton
    06. F. Woolley (6)
    07. I. Botham (4)
    08. A. Knott
    09. F. Trueman (1)
    10. G. Lohmann (2)
    11. S. F. Barnes (3)

    12. H. Verity


    ...to face my Australian all time XI:

    01. A. Morris
    02. B. Simpson
    03. D. Bradman
    04. G. Chappell
    05. V. Trumper
    06. R. Ponting/ N. Harvey
    07. A. Gilchrist
    08. R. Lindwall
    09. S. Warne
    10. D. Lillee
    11. G. McGrath

    12. K .Miller
    Last edited by Monk; 10-10-2012 at 04:01 PM.

  4. #679
    Eds
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    International Debutant Eds's Avatar
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    So harsh on Miller, Sutcliffe, Hutton.
    "If that Swann lad is the future of spin bowling in this country, then we're ****ed." - Nasser Hussain, 1997.


  5. #680
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Hammond was an imperious batsman, with that famous cover drive that Zaremba uses as his current avatar, but I certainly don't suppose he was better to watch than the most stylish of recent years, Lara in particular. But I do bear in mind that generally those guys batted with wands rather than railway sleepers, and their whole approach was different - there is, for example, quite a bit of footage of Denis Compton around - incredibly easy on the eye, but I simply don't believe he would/could have batted like that today
    I think this the key. I just prefer the way modern techniques look. That's not to say I don't appreciate how the players from the past could have been viewed as incredibly stylish, I just don't particularly prefer them to modern day bats. Its probably unfair for someone of my age commenting on such a matter, because 99% of footage I've seen is from the modern day, but I've never seen any past footage of a batsmen which I find more pleasing on the eye than Martyn, Bell, de Villiers or Kohli.

    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    I'd love to watch Jack Hobbs' technique rather than even the best batsman's 'plant the foot and hit' style of the modern day.
    I actually prefer those 'plant the foot and drive' style that is grooved from the bowling machine. I can see why you'd prefer watching the old bats though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..

  6. #681
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eds View Post
    So harsh on Miller, Sutcliffe, Hutton.
    True Eds.

    I've included Miller as a twelfth. I just think the Australian XI is stronger with the three quicks and one spinner, as well as six batsmen (Simmo and Chappell can bowl a few overs). I'm torn with Miller!

    Sutcliffe and Hutton are competing for the same spot, as partner to Hobbs. I included Grace over both, primarily for the fact that he was considered the greatest for a long time a baton he passed on to Trumper/Hobbs, then Bradman.

    Here's an interesting conversation point for stats nerds....

    Should an ATG team's bowling attack have a bowling attack whose cumulative wickets per test adds up to 20+?

  7. #682
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    And my WIs XI:


    01. Gordon Greenidge
    02. Desmond Haynes
    03. Frank Worrell/ Rohan Kanhai
    04. Brian Lara
    05. Viv Richards
    06. Garry Sobers
    07. Clyde Walcott
    08. Malcolm Marshall
    09. Michael Holding
    10. Curtly Ambrose
    11. Lance Gibbs

  8. #683
    State Vice-Captain JBMAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    And my WIs XI:


    01. Gordon Greenidge
    02. Desmond Haynes
    03. Frank Worrell/ Rohan Kanhai
    04. Brian Lara
    05. Viv Richards
    06. Garry Sobers
    07. Clyde Walcott
    08. Malcolm Marshall
    09. Michael Holding
    10. Curtly Ambrose
    11. Lance Gibbs
    WTF? No Headley
    Keep Your Feet on The Ground,Keep Reaching for The Stars!

  9. #684
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Correct, the more I research, read and watch old clips, I am convinced that he along with Sobers are the best W.I batsmen and the best over all after Bradman. Viv at his best was their equal and faced the best bowlers, but his peak was the shortest, Lara was their equal as well, but was inconsistent and mecurial. All Four though were absolutely amazing though and among the top 10 batsmen of all time.
    1st XI
    Hutton | Hobbs | Bradman* | Richards^ | Tendulkar | Sobers5^ | Gilchrist+ | Khan3 | Marshall1 | Warne4^ | McGrath2
    2nd XI
    Sutcliffe | Gavaskar* | Headley | Chappell^ | Lara^ | Kallis5^ | Knott+ | Hadlee3 | Ambrose2 | Lillee1 | Muralitharan4
    3rd XI
    Greenidge | Richards^ | Ponting^ | Pollock | Hammond^ | Worrell5* | Waite+ | Akram3 | Steyn1 | Holding2 | O'Reilly4
    4th XI
    Morris | Simpson^ | Sangakkara | Weekes^ | Border*^ | Walcott+ | Faulkner5 | Laker4 | Trueman1 | Garner3 | Donald2

  10. #685
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Australia All Time XI

    Bobby Simpson
    Arthur Morris
    Don Bradman
    Greg Chappell
    Alan Border
    Keith Miller
    Adam Gilchrist
    Shane Warne
    Bill O’Reilly
    Dennis Lillee
    Glen Mcgrath

    West Indies XI

    Gordon Greenidge
    Conrad Hunte
    George Headley
    Brian Lara
    Viv Richards
    Garry Sobers
    Clyde Walcott
    Malcolm Marshall
    Curtly Ambrose
    Michael Holding
    Lance Gibbs

    South Africa All Time XI

    Barry Richards
    Graeme Smith
    Jacques Kallis
    Graeme Pollock
    Dudley Nourse
    Aubrey Faulkner
    Shaun Pollock
    Mike Procter
    Jon Waite
    Hugh Tayfield
    Allan Donald

    England All Time XI

    Jack Hobbs
    Len Hutton
    Wally Hammond
    Ken Barrington
    Denis Compton
    Ian Botham
    Alan Knott
    Harold Larwood
    Jim Laker
    Fred Trueman
    Sydney Barnes

    Pakistan All Time XI

    Saeed Anwar
    Hanif Mohammad
    Zaheer Abbas
    Javed Miandad
    Inzaman Ul-Haq
    Mohammad Yousuf
    Imran Khan
    Wasim Bari
    Wasim Akram
    Abdul Qadir
    Waqar Younis

    India All Time XI

    Sunil Gavaskar
    Virender Sehwag
    Rahul Dravid
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Vijay Hazare
    Vinoo Mankad
    Farokh Engineer
    Kapil Dev
    Anil Kumble
    Erapalli Prasanna
    Mohammad Nissar

    Sri Lanka All Time XI

    Marvan Atapattu
    Sanath Jayasuriya
    Kumar Sangakkara
    Aravinda De Silva
    Mahela Jayawardene
    Arjuna Ranatunga
    Prasanna Jayawardene
    Chaminda Vaas
    Rumesh Ratnayake
    Ashantha de Mel
    Muttiah Muralitharan

    New Zealand All Time XI

    Glenn Turner
    Stewie Dempster
    Bert Sutcliffe
    Martin Crowe
    Martin Donnelly
    John Reid
    Richard Hadlee
    Daniel Vettori
    Ian Smith
    Shane Bond
    Jack Cowie

    Best of The Rest XI

    Herbert Sutcliffe
    Vijay Merchant
    Ricky Ponting
    Everton Weekes
    Neil Harvey
    Frank Worrell
    Les Ames
    Ray Lindwall
    Hedley Verity
    Joel Garner
    Dale Steyn

    Lot of time and research using consensus views to assemble these teams. Let me know of proposed changes.
    Last edited by kyear2; 10-10-2012 at 11:29 PM.

  11. #686
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Really great teams kyear, on the whole I agree with many of your thoughts, I in particular love the Windies XI.

    I don't really like the SL team, Sanga, keeping and batting at 3 is tough.
    Last edited by NUFAN; 10-10-2012 at 07:00 PM.

  12. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMAC View Post
    WTF? No Headley
    Not wacko, just an oversight~!


    01. Gordon Greenidge
    02. Desmond Haynes
    03. George Headley
    04. Brian Lara
    05. Viv Richards
    06. Garry Sobers
    07. Clyde Walcott
    08. Malcolm Marshall
    09. Michael Holding
    10. Curtly Ambrose
    11. Lance Gibbs

  13. #688
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    New Zealand All Time XI

    Glenn Turner
    Stewie Dempster
    Bert Sutcliffe
    Martin Crowe
    Martin Donnelly
    John F. Reid
    Richard Hadlee
    Chris Cairns/Dan Vettori
    Ian Smith
    Shane Bond
    Jack Cowie


    I think this side would surprise a few of the higher ranked sides. Hadlee, Bond and Cowie are an excellent pace trio.

    Cairns/Vettori to battle over the last spot. Cairns would give a bit of x-factor to the batting. NZ haven't ever produced a GREAT spinner.

  14. #689
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    NZ did produce Grimmett - lucky we stole him!
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  15. #690
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Really great teams kyear, on the whole I agree with many of your thoughts, I in particular love the Windies XI.

    I don't really like the SL team, Sanga, keeping and batting at 3 is tough.
    Agreed, Sanga stays at 3 but Prassana to take the gloves IMO.



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