The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[8ankitj]

I like the final outcome of that analysis in ’it figures’ but there is much wrong with that approach. Firstly, those measures are not strictly independent, so you give benefit of one parameter more than once. Secondly, I find it funny that he says that he gives equal weight to all parameter because he doesn't want to bring in subjectivity. Equal weight is as arbitrary as unequal weight in absence of any justification. Finally, what he has got is a number that doesn't have any physical meaning. In Pews' or DoG's analysis we at least know what the final number roughly stands for. To critic this analysis is not to critic application of stats in general but abuse of stats.

[Jager]

Ankit remember your value of wicket study? Larwood had the highest score of averages, right?

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by 8ankitj

I like the final outcome of that analysis in ’it figures’ but there is much wrong with that approach. Firstly, those measures are not strictly independent, so you give benefit of one parameter more than once. Secondly, I find it funny that he says that he gives equal weight to all parameter because he doesn't want to bring in subjectivity. Equal weight is as arbitrary as unequal weight in absence of any justification. Finally, what he has got is a number that doesn't have any physical meaning. In Pews' or DoG's analysis we at least know what the final number roughly stands for. To critic this analysis is not to critic application of stats in general but abuse of stats.

dude, how come you haven't posed your value of wicket analysis yet

[NUFAN]

Originally Posted by Jager

Surprised to see Martyn omitted and Smith making an appearance - hideous technique the big fella has.

I actually can't explain why I picked Smith. I always want him to perform badly as I have a bet with Pews that Cook will average above Smith.

I should have went with Haydos.

BTW, ignore my team its a bit of a contradiction, just wanted an XI with MWaugh in it really.

[Monk]

Australian XI Worth Watching - Artists & Entertainers

1. Archie Jackson
2. Arthur Morris
3. Victor Trumper
4. Greg Chappell
5. Mark Waugh
6. Allan Kippax
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Keith Miller
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Ted McDonald

[Eds]

Bradman deserves a place somewhere, surely?

[Monk]

Originally Posted by Eds

Bradman deserves a place somewhere, surely?

Nah, they're the batsmen I'd love to watch. Bradman was an efficient run making machine, but he wasn't a particularly great batsman to watch.

[Eds]

He's probably not the greatest batsman to watch, but he's definitely in the top one.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by Eds

He's probably not the greatest batsman to watch, but he's definitely in the top one.

No doubt first picked in a team I'd like to win. Those were more players I'd love to watch.

[JBMAC]

Originally Posted by Monk

Nah, they're the batsmen I'd love to watch. Bradman was an efficient run making machine, but he wasn't a particularly great batsman to watch.

You just got to be kidding! Bradman in full cry was a sight to be seen.And out of curiousity how many times have you seen Bradman bat?????

[watson]

Batsman who are 'Artists and Entertainers' appeal to the spectator because they live on the edge while batting. At any given time they look like they are about to succumb to a good ball but instead belt it the boundary with an unexpected brilliant shot.

Bradman doesn't really fit into the above description as he was a batting machine. Generally speaking a 4 was hit with minimum risk along the ground. Sure his cover drive or pull-shot were a great sight, but because of the lack of risk there would be little "Oooo" or "Ahhh" factor.

Charlie Macartney on the other hand liked to play his cut-shot to good length balls headed for the top of off-stump. The crowd would anticipate that his off-stump would go cart-wheeling but instead the fieldman would be picking the ball up somewhere near the third man boundary rope. It's this sort of unique shot selection and risk taking against good bowling that defines an 'Artist and Entertainer'.

[kyear2]

From what I have read both Hammond and Headley were more stylish batsmen, while Bradman was more like a run machine.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by JBMAC

You just got to be kidding! Bradman in full cry was a sight to be seen.And out of curiousity how many times have you seen Bradman bat?????

I've seen a fair bit of video footage of him. Obviously I never saw him bat "live"!

The batsmen I love to watch are the stylists. Mark Waugh is my favourite Australian batsman I saw. Obviously his brother, and Ponting and a few others have been more effective, but M.Waugh is the one I'd prefer to watch make 100.

The thing that strikes me about Bradman is his footwork and his bat speed. But I don't think he was overly graceful.

[Dan]

XI I would most like to watch

1. Barry Richards
2. Archie Jackson
3. Charles Macartney
4. Stan McCabe
5. Frank Worrell
6. Keith Miller *
7. George Hirst
8. Godfrey Evans +
9. Ray Lindwall
10. Harold Larwood
11. Jim Laker

[watson]

Originally Posted by Monk

I've seen a fair bit of video footage of him. Obviously I never saw him bat "live"!

The batsmen I love to watch are the stylists. Mark Waugh is my favourite Australian batsman I saw. Obviously his brother, and Ponting and a few others have been more effective, but M.Waugh is the one I'd prefer to watch make 100.

The thing that strikes me about Bradman is his footwork and his bat speed. But I don't think he was overly graceful.

What's a 'Stylist' though Monk? And is a 'Stylist' the same thing as an 'Artist and Entertainer'?

To me a Stylist is a batsman who makes batting look easy. Even when faced with a 'sand-shoe crusher' from the likes of Thomo or Waqar they will move slightly inside the ball and deflect it round to square leg for a single with a minimum of fuss. Because the stylist plays his shot with such apparent ease we are not aware that they just scored a run off a difficult delivery.

I think that it is also important to note that a Stylist looks stylish because they have lightening reflexes and impecable foot-work. Without those two qualities they could not appear unhurried and cool.

David Gower is an classic example of a English Stylist. Only Gower could look serene while facing Dennis Lillee.