The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[trundler]

Yeah but my original XI wasn't about not-nice people; it referred specifically to ex players who grew into salty, pompous pricks.

 

[harsh.ag]

If being the only truly great player in a side playing against a side containing 4-5 great players doesn't make you cranky, then you're an angel.

 

[Starfighter]

Yeah but my original XI wasn't about not-nice people; it referred specifically to ex players who grew into salty, pompous pricks.

Fred Trueman certainly did this. A bit of a Willis before Willis.

 

[Red]

Lot of drama in the 30’s, seems to all have dated back to Catholic vs Protestant.

The sectarian divide was a huge thing in Australia at that time. Irish Catholics (O'Reilly) generally disliked Anglo Saxon Protestants (Bradman). A lot of Bradman's ilk were Freemasons also (Bradman was one) who were against Catholicism and politically tried to oppose Catholics, and were also against the Labor party and trade unions that were rising at the time.

Essentially it all boiled down to two old feuds, Catholics vs Protestants or Irish vs English.

People cared a lot at the time, because a lot of Irish Catholics refused to support "Empire" wars (ie. the British) which was viewed by other Australians as un-patriotic and perhaps cowardly, particularly when many Australians still heavily identified with the British Empire/Commonwealth and had a strong allegiance to the monarch and all things British.

 

[AndrewB]

The boring solution is zero. You could put together a bunch of teams that would compete with any actual number.

One or more single digit options probably gives you a really strong team. Would take a lot of time sorting through unfamiliar players to get an answer though.

From a fairly quick look I think some of the single digit options will give you a decent team, but I'm not convinced any of them will be stronger than the 58 and 27 Test teams.

 

[bagapath]

Post WW2 triangular test tournament

Team A: Post Bradman - Pre SA ban (1948 - 1970)

Sir Len Hutton
Arthur Morris
Denis Compton
Graeme Pollock
Sir Gary Sobers
Keith Miller
Richie Benaud *
Godfrey Evans +
Ray Lindwall
Fred Truman
Jim Laker

Squad: Alan Davidson, Everton Weeks, Vinoo Mankad, Neil Harvey, Peter May

Team B: Packer and Early ODI Era (1970 - 1992)

Sunil Gavaskar
Gordon Greenidge
Sir Viv Richards
Greg Chappell
Allan Border *
Imran Khan
Alan Knott +
Sir Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Bishan Bedi

Squad: Sir Ian Botham, Javed Miandad, Michael Holding, David Gower, Kapil Dev

Team C: Less FC and T20 era (1993 - 2018)

Matt Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Jacques Kllis
AB de Villiers *
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Curtley Ambrose
Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Squad: Ricky Ponting, Kumar Sangakara, Dale Steyn, Wasim Akram, Steve Waugh

 

[Bolo]

From a fairly quick look I think some of the single digit options will give you a decent team, but I'm not convinced any of them will be stronger than the 58 and 27 Test teams.

Those are some strong teams. Sounds likely.

 

[Red]

You could make a hell of a T20 team from those first two eras.

B.Richards
K.Dev
V.Richards
G.Pollock
K.Miller
N.Harvey
R.Benaud *
A.Davidson
R.Lindwall
A.Knott +
B.Bedi

6 legit bowlers: 4 quicks and 2 spinners, all bowlers apart from Kapil known misers
Elite fielding from V.Richards, Miller, Harvey, Benaud, Davidson
Brutal batting firepower - Kapil and Barry might bat through the 20 and make 400, but if Viv, Pollock and Miller have to chime in, it'll all be fine. Harvey a renowned player of spin, and the team bats to 10.

 

[Coronis]

Team C: Less FC and T20 era (1993 - 2018)

Matt Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Jacques Kllis
AB de Villiers *
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Curtley Ambrose
Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Squad: Ricky Ponting, Kumar Sangakara, Dale Steyn, Wasim Akram, Steve Waugh

AB was great yeah but he's not in Ponting or Sanga's class. Would rather have Steyn or Wasim in the starting XI too, with the 2nd spinner coming in on rank turners.

 

[bagapath]

You could make a hell of a T20 team from those first two eras.

B.Richards
K.Dev
V.Richards
G.Pollock
K.Miller
N.Harvey
R.Benaud *
A.Davidson
R.Lindwall
A.Knott +
B.Bedi

6 legit bowlers: 4 quicks and 2 spinners, all bowlers apart from Kapil known misers
Elite fielding from V.Richards, Miller, Harvey, Benaud, Davidson
Brutal batting firepower - Kapil and Barry might bat through the 20 and make 400, but if Viv, Pollock and Miller have to chime in, it'll all be fine. Harvey a renowned player of spin, and the team bats to 10.

To play against..

Compton
Weekes
Dexter
Walcott+
Sobers
Greig
Procter
Imran *
Botham
Hadlee
Laker

Some heavy hitters, pace bowlers, all rounders, great fielders in here as well....

 

[bagapath]

AB was great yeah but he's not in Ponting or Sanga's class. Would rather have Steyn or Wasim in the starting XI too, with the 2nd spinner coming in on rank turners.

Tried hard to keep favorite batting positions intact. AB makes a more legit no 6 than Punter or Sanga IMO, though I agree that they're super batsmen overall if at all anyone could be deemed to be better than AB.

 

[bagapath]

47ers and 28ers XI

Geoff Boycott
Bill Lawny *
Hashim Amla
Rohan Kanhai
Kevin Pietersen
Sir Ian Botham
Adam Gilchrist +
Mitchell Johnson
Jeff Thomson
Makhaya Ntini
Bishan Bedi


Dour openers.
Stroke filled middle order.
Aggressive allrounders as fourth pacer and wicket keeper.
Two express fast bowlers.
One fast bowling work horse.
One classical left arm spinner.

 

[_00_deathscar]

47ers and 28ers XI

Geoff Boycott
Bill Lawny *
Hashim Amla
Rohan Kanhai
Kevin Pietersen
Sir Ian Botham
Adam Gilchrist +
Mitchell Johnson
Jeff Thomson
Makhaya Ntini
Bishan Bedi


Dour openers.
Stroke filled middle order.
Aggressive allrounders as fourth pacer and wicket keeper.
Two express fast bowlers.
One fast bowling work horse.
One classical left arm spinner.

Didn't realise Amla only finished with 47. Just a shade under 50 for ODIs too - was thinking he'd finish higher for tests for sure, and just over 50 for ODIs.

On that note, that's not a very good pace bowling attack - it's okay, like (not sure I could find a better one). The issue is that on its day it would rip you apart. But Mitch Johnson's day was basically within an 18-month timeframe. Ntini was a good bowler but not a frontline bowler, and Thomson was too erratic.

 

[Prince EWS]

Didn't realise Amla only finished with 47. Just a shade under 50 for ODIs too - was thinking he'd finish higher for tests for sure, and just over 50 for ODIs.

He hasn't actually finished.

 

[OverratedSanity]

If anything it'll probably drop further.

 

[Prince EWS]

If anything it'll probably drop further.

Haha yeah I agree, but the phrasing of the post really annoyed me for some reason.

 

[the big bambino]

It’s a top notch pace attack. A real wrecking crew.

 

[Bolo]

In an attack of:

Sobers, Imran, Hadlee and Marshall, would it make more sense to play Warne or Murali?

Imran is more hot and cold than other great bowlers, and not as good in challenging conditions. Which one of these two covers this shortfall better?

Both were rubbish against really strong batting lineups in unhelpful conditions (vs India or AUS in India and AUS). What type of wicket would one have an advantage on over the other, particularly if it is one that the quicks would struggle on (Warne would probably be better suited to tracks that offer bounce but not that much turn for example, but the quicks will play a bigger role anyway).

 

[trundler]

Ditch both, get O'Reilly. Don't see either threatening an ATG lineup with no weak links. As an aside, I don't think batting lineups would last very long against those 3 at their best either.

 

[Prince EWS]

In an attack of:

Sobers, Imran, Hadlee and Marshall, would it make more sense to play Warne or Murali?

Deciding whether to play Warne or Murali would probably come down more to the pitch conditions for me than the balance of the reason of the attack, but just answering it in a bubble my instinct was to offer up that turning that ball in the opposition direction to the second spinner might come in handy. Of course Sobers has ruined this tie-breaker by bowling both types of spin though.

What type of wicket would one have an advantage on over the other, particularly if it is one that the quicks would struggle on (Warne would probably be better suited to tracks that offer bounce but not that much turn for example, but the quicks will play a bigger role anyway).

Yeah, solid logic. I'd take Murali in Asia+WI and Warne in everywhere else if I could do that, but I could only have one and had to take them everywhere I'd take Murali. Firstly because I just think he's the better bowler (a debate we have a separate thread for, for a reason, before anyone decides to go down that rabbit hole in this one again), but secondly because it's going to be more important to have the better spinner on the surfaces he'd have the advantage on.