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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #601
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    I rate Hill higher than the Governor General at the moment - on par with someone like Dudley Nourse, who I'd not be so fussed about having in my greatest side ever, yet perennially underrated by everyone on CW
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  2. #602
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Both of the above mentioned teams would have the ability to defeat Bradman's team and they are better balanced.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  3. #603
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMAC View Post
    I can't speak about Larwood but I can speak about both Tallon and Bradman having seen them play.I can categorically state Tallon was a far superior gloveman to Gilchrist and Bradman was twice the batsman of anyone I have ever seen play the game.When you are using the term"ATG" the first two picked should be those two.
    Not disputing that Tallon was the superior gloveman, but how much would you loose having Gilly taking the gloves. How many stumpings have we seen Gilly snuff in his prime, or games did he make Australia loose, not that many. The runs he made though contributed to some fabulous victories and he did take some spectacular catches.
    On Bradman, it was said that his greatness came not from genius, but the ability to anticpate length and his amazing concentration and consistentcy, Headley and Hammond were supposedly more attractive or flamboyant players and I would dare say they are a few batsmen, who in their prime touched the heights that Bradman graced, (Lara, Richards, Headley, Tendulkar, Pollock, Chappell, Sobers, Hobbs, Hammond, Gavaskar) but were just unable to sustain it for an entire career and quite possibly faced better bowlers in tougher conditions.
    In addition the rules he played under, the fact he played againts 3 minnows at the time againts 1 good team and only in two countries and the great batting talent that surrounded him all say to me that yes he was the best and by a clear margin, but not twice as good as the next best group.

  4. #604
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post
    Changing the topic - where does CW rate Clem Hill (and other early 20th Century players)?
    We do have the world's leading authority on Clem Hill, archie mac, within our midst - sadly we see him all too rarely on the forums these days but I shall email him and ask him to check into this thread and give you his opinion


  5. #605
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I rate Hill higher than the Governor General at the moment - on par with someone like Dudley Nourse, who I'd not be so fussed about having in my greatest side ever, yet perennially underrated by everyone on CW
    I'm torn between the two; Macartney was gun at 3 after the War, but Hill was seen as the preeminent batsman of his day and held the Test runs record until one Mr. Hobbs came along. Unfortunately, both were best at number 3, so I can't select both in XIs as easily.


    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    We do have the world's leading authority on Clem Hill, archie mac, within our midst - sadly we see him all too rarely on the forums these days but I shall email him and ask him to check into this thread and give you his opinion
    Thanks.
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  6. #606
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Question - how would Walcott's keeping compare to Gilchrist's? If we have Walcott batting at 6 or 7, it'd be an insanely great batting line up.

  7. #607
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    I have done a LOT of reading on the topic and remarkably actually spoken to two people that have seen him keep wicket.
    One used the words solid, reliable and very safe, the other simply said very good, good foot work and hands. Not a big diver and leaper like dujon but technically better. Remember he had 11 stumpings in 15 matches including the difficult surfaces of India and England.
    Additionally the three West Indian commentators/journalists that are respected the most all include Walcott as the W.I keeper in their All Time XI, those being Tony Cozier, Reds Perrieira and Fazz Mohammad. He was not as good a pure keeper as Knott, but we also wouldn't be playing on damp uncovered pitches either and from what I under stand, he compares very favorably with Gilchrist.

  8. #608
    International Vice-Captain Red Hill's Avatar
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    The more I consider it, the less I am inclined to include Miller in my all time Australian XI.

    At present:

    1. Bob Simpson
    2. Arthur Morris
    3. Don Bradman
    4. Greg Chappell
    5. Ricky Ponting
    6. Neil Harvey
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Ray Lindwall
    9. Shane Warne
    10. Dennis Lillee
    11. Glenn McGrath


    Like the combination of three left handers and four right handers in the top 7.
    Like the L/R opening combo.
    Bowling attack has serious venom, and is relentless.
    Chappell and Simpson can both bowl if required.
    Chappell and Simpson are probably the greatest slip fielders Australia has had. Ponting and Harvey two of the greatest in the cover/point areas. Bradman a very good cover fieldsman.
    I'll never fear you, buddy.

  9. #609
    International Vice-Captain Red Hill's Avatar
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    1. Bob Simpson
    2. Arthur Morris
    3. Don Bradman
    4. Greg Chappell
    5. Victor Trumper
    6. Neil Harvey
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Ray Lindwall
    9. Shane Warne
    10. Dennis Lillee
    11. Glenn McGrath


    And for the more nostalgic choice (plus the fact he absolutely dominated in the #5 position).

  10. #610
    International Vice-Captain Red Hill's Avatar
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    Best Aust average in each batting position (min 10 innings in that spot, openers combined at #1 and #2).

    1. S. Barnes (71.38)
    2. B. Simpson (55.51)
    3. D. Bradman (103.63)
    4. D. Jones (71.61)
    5. V. Trumper (69.37)
    6. B. Booth (64.22)
    7. W. Armstrong (51.71)

  11. #611
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    The more I consider it, the less I am inclined to include Miller in my all time Australian XI.

    At present:

    1. Bob Simpson
    2. Arthur Morris
    3. Don Bradman
    4. Greg Chappell
    5. Ricky Ponting
    6. Neil Harvey
    7. Adam Gilchrist
    8. Ray Lindwall
    9. Shane Warne
    10. Dennis Lillee
    11. Glenn McGrath


    Like the combination of three left handers and four right handers in the top 7.
    Like the L/R opening combo.
    Bowling attack has serious venom, and is relentless.
    Chappell and Simpson can both bowl if required.
    Chappell and Simpson are probably the greatest slip fielders Australia has had. Ponting and Harvey two of the greatest in the cover/point areas. Bradman a very good cover fieldsman.
    I like,.Lindwall was the better bowler and not a bad batsman. Additionally always thought two leggies is a bit of over kill. Either Miller or Ponting though would be great in the position. Great flexibilty this team has.

  12. #612
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Would sub out Ponting/Harvey for Border/Waugh, but agreed, it's my favourite XI so far. But who would be captain?
    "The Australian cricket captain is the Prime Minister Australia wishes it had. Steve Waugh is that man, Michael Clarke is not." - Jarrod Kimber

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  13. #613
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Also, is Arthur Morris a lock-in for an opener's spot? The only truly excellent bowling he faced was from Bedser, Tyson, Laker and Lock and his troubles against the former are heavily documented. Can't see him mixing it with Imran/Wasim/Waqar or the dreaded four prong.

    God forbid, but I wouldn't be averse to Hayden being there. Ikki, back me up.
    Last edited by LongHopCassidy; 01-10-2012 at 07:07 AM.

  14. #614
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Morris averaged 57 and hit 8 centuries against Bedser.

    Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

  15. #615
    International Vice-Captain Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy View Post
    Also, is Arthur Morris a lock-in for an opener's spot? The only truly excellent bowling he faced was from Bedser, Tyson, Laker and Lock and his troubles against the former are heavily documented. Can't see him mixing it with Imran/Wasim/Waqar or the dreaded four prong.

    God forbid, but I wouldn't be averse to Hayden being there. Ikki, back me up.
    Hayden was often found out when the attack was a bit more potent. Flat track bully is an overused term, but it fits him perfectly.



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