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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #391
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Dudley Nourse is South Africa's greatest middle-order batsman. Discuss
    For me it's really tough to split between Nourse and Pollock. If I was asked even a month ago, I would comfortably say Graeme Pollock but after I read more about Nourse, my appreciation for the man increased more. Nourse might not be as gifted as Pollock but he scored and scored heavily against greater opposition from his eras. Nourse could adapt greatly according to situation and was more of a fighting batsman.

    It can be argued that Nourse didn't have the support that Pollock had. Nourse's double century against Australia facing O'Reilly and Grimmett and the century against England before war against Verity prove he's one of the greatest players of spin. After war he scored centuries against England facing Bedser and against Australia facing Lindwall, Miller and Johnston. His marathon double century against England gave South Africa win and a knock to remember.

    I really can't split between Nourse and Pollock but maybe that some videos/footage of Pollock's batting got stuck in my mind, I'm inclined to put Pollock slightly ahead but it's arguable.

    Here's a feature on Dudley Nourse by Stuart Wark: http://www.cricketweb.net/blog/features/93.php
    Last edited by AndyZaltzHair; 17-09-2012 at 07:09 PM.
    Originally Spoken by Brendon McCullum
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  2. #392
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyZaltzHair View Post
    For me it's really tough to split between Nourse and Pollock. If I was asked even a month ago, I would comfortably say Graeme Pollock but after I read more about Nourse, my appreciation for the man increased more. Nourse might not be as gifted as Pollock but he scored and scored heavily against greater opposition from his eras. Nourse could adapt greatly according to situation and was more of a fighting batsman.

    It can be argued that Nourse didn't have the support that Pollock had. Nourse's double century against Australia facing O'Reilly and Grimmett and the century against England before war against Verity prove he's one of the greatest players of spin. After war he scored centuries against England facing Bedser and against Australia facing Lindwall, Miller and Johnston. His marathon double century against England gave South Africa win and a knock to remember.

    I really can't split between Nourse and Pollock but maybe that some videos/footage of Pollock's batting got stuck in my mind, I'm inclined to put Pollock slightly ahead but it's arguable.

    Here's a feature on Dudley Nourse by Stuart Wark: Cricket Web - Features: Dudley Nourse
    Nice argument on behalf of Nourse. Didn't know much about him, now I do. Thanks.

    However, South Africa must have a 3rd and 4th ATG middle-order batsman that run close to Nourse/Pollock as they can't be that bereft of talent. Just wondering who though.

    Kallis?
    PRE WWI
    Grace-Trumper-Hill-Taylor-Ranjitsinhji-Faulkner-Noble-Lilley-Turner-Richardson-Barnes
    PRE WWII
    Hobbs-Sutcliffe-Bradman-Hammond-Headley-Macartney-Ames-Gregory-Larwood-O'Reilly-Grimmett
    POST WWII
    Hutton-Simpson-Kanhai-Pollock-Harvey-Sobers-Waite-Benaud-Davidson-Lindwall-Trueman
    PACKER ERA
    Gavaskar-Greenidge-Richards-Chappell-Lloyd-Botham-Imran-Knott-Lillee-Holding-Underwood
    MODERN ERA
    Hayden-Langer-Ponting-Tendulkar-Lara-Kallis-Gilchrist-Marshall-Warne-Ambrose-McGrath

  3. #393
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Kallis would be it. Those 3 make a middle order as good as any other team's. In fact SA ATXI can compete with any other team. They have all the ingredients with 3-4 all rounders in the team.

  4. #394
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Nice argument on behalf of Nourse. Didn't know much about him, now I do. Thanks.

    However, South Africa must have a 3rd and 4th ATG middle-order batsman that run close to Nourse/Pollock as they can't be that bereft of talent. Just wondering who though.

    Kallis?
    Also Herb Taylor. Barely averaged over 40 but played against some really dominant bowling attacks; my standardised averages metric gave him an adjusted average of much closer to 50, and he was playing Test cricket into his early 40s.
    ~ Cribbage


  5. #395
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Also Herb Taylor. Barely averaged over 40 but played against some really dominant bowling attacks; my standardised averages metric gave him an adjusted average of much closer to 50, and he was playing Test cricket into his early 40s.
    Of course. Herbie Taylor, the batsman who made SF Barnes hurl the bowl at the ground in frustration and yell, "It's Taylor, always Taylor, Taylor, Taylor, Taylor!" Or something like that.

    Opener or middle-order though?
    Last edited by watson; 17-09-2012 at 09:14 PM.

  6. #396
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Of course. Herbie Taylor, the batsman who made SF Barnes hurl the bowl at the ground in frustration and yell, "It's Taylor, always Taylor, Taylor, Taylor, Taylor!" Or something like that.

    Opener or middle-order though?
    He did a bit of both as most good batsmen did during his era but he batted in the middle order more than he opened. I would've mentioned Bruce Mitchell as well although I think he was more of a genuine opener.

  7. #397
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    SA
    Richards
    Mitchell
    Kallis
    Pollock
    Nourse
    Taylor
    Waite †
    Procter
    Tayfield
    Donald
    Adcock
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  8. #398
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    SA
    Richards
    Mitchell
    Kallis
    Pollock
    Nourse
    Taylor
    Waite †
    Procter
    Tayfield
    Donald
    Adcock
    Looks pretty good.

    I suppose that;
    Smith will contest Mitchell's spot.
    Faulkner will contest Taylor's spot.
    And S. Pollock will contest Adcock's spot.

    Also, just checked; Taylor batted up and down the order, but most often at No.4 (x15) and No.1 + 2 (x21)
    Last edited by watson; 17-09-2012 at 09:44 PM.

  9. #399
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    There is no way that Shaun Pollock makes my all time SA side and there is no way that Dudley Nourse is South Africa's greatest middle order bat.

    Don't discuss..

  10. #400
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  11. #401
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Here is a black and white reel from 1924 entitled;

    SOUTH AFRICA'S CRICKET TEAM. H. W. Taylor, Captain, one of the 3 best Batmen in the World.

    SOUTH AFRICAN CRICKET TEAM - British Pathé
    It seems that by the mid 1920s Herbie Taylor was very highly regarded by the British media. I wonder who the other two batsman are? Hobbs would be one I'd imagine.
    Last edited by watson; 18-09-2012 at 12:44 AM.

  12. #402
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    There is no way that Shaun Pollock makes my all time SA side and there is no way that Dudley Nourse is South Africa's greatest middle order bat.

    Don't discuss..
    I dont know enough about Nourse to comment on him, but can't really see why you wouldn't at least consider S.Pollock. One of the most consistent cricketers ever, and as a bowling allrounder he is one of the best ever.
    Hutton - Gavaskar - Bradman - Tendulkar - V.Richards - Sobers - Knott - Warne - Marshall - Lillee - Ambrose

  13. #403
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    I have considered him, like he makes my South African all time squad but I can't justifiably select him in my starting XI with the assumption that I'm trying to win the match and everyone who has represented South Africa is available.

  14. #404
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    I have considered him, like he makes my South African all time squad but I can't justifiably select him in my starting XI with the assumption that I'm trying to win the match and everyone who has represented South Africa is available.
    Yeh, fair enough, I agree with you on reflection. I reckon his equivalent Australian is Allan Davidson. Pretty similar. Starters in a second XI, but not quite enough strike power to warrant a place over other quicks in the first XIs.

  15. #405
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Graeme Smith and Dale Steyn deserves a look for that team and additionally Graeme Pollock.is S.A. greatest middle order batsman, followed by Kallis, any other after that. And yes South Africas team is very strong and I rank them third ahead of England
    1st XI
    Hutton | Hobbs | Bradman* | Richards^ | Tendulkar | Sobers5^ | Gilchrist+ | Khan3 | Marshall1 | Warne4^ | McGrath2
    2nd XI
    Sutcliffe | Gavaskar* | Headley | Chappell^ | Lara^ | Kallis5^ | Knott+ | Hadlee3 | Ambrose2 | Lillee1 | Muralitharan4
    3rd XI
    Greenidge | Richards^ | Ponting^ | Pollock | Hammond^ | Worrell5* | Waite+ | Akram3 | Steyn1 | Holding2 | O'Reilly4
    4th XI
    Morris | Simpson^ | Sangakkara | Weekes^ | Border*^ | Walcott+ | Faulkner5 | Laker4 | Trueman1 | Garner3 | Donald2



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