The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[bagapath]

FOUR ALL TIME GREAT ODI TEAMS

The early years

Turner
Greenidge
Richards (6)
Abbas
G.Chappell (5)
Lloyd (C)
Hadlee (2)
Marsh (WK)
Lillee (1)
Holding (3)
Garner (4)

The growing years

Haynes
Gooch
Miandad
Jones
S. Waugh (6)
Imran (C) (1)
Shastri (5)
Kapil (3)
Healy (WK)
Akram (2)
Waqar (4)

The modern years

Tendulkar
Gilchrist (WK)
Ponting (C)
Lara
Kallis (5)
Bevan
Symonds (6)
S. Pollock (3)
Murali (5)
McGrath (1)
Donald (2)

Post Modern Years

Amla
Watson (6)
Kohli
De Villiers
Hussey
Dhoni (C) (WK)
Shakib Al Hasan (5)
Johnson (2)
Steyn (1)
Morkel (3)
Malinga (4)

 

[smash84]

you'd be better off kicking out Shastri and putting in Richard Hadlee in the growing years

 

[bagapath]

you'd be better off kicking out Shastri and putting in Richard Hadlee in the growing years

I could have. but that would mean bringing in qadir in place of waqar

and replacing hadlee with roberts in the early years...

decided to make use of shastri's lower order batting and left arm spin which worked very well for india between 84 and 88

 

[Red]

An Eleven To Represent England

WG Grace
Sir Jack Hobbs

Sir Len Hutton
Ken Barrington
Wally Hammond
Ted Dexter/Dennis Compton/Kevin Pietersen

Alan Knott

Harold Larwood
John Snow
Sydney Barnes
Fred Trueman

The difficulty of an England XI is the need to fit in Botham, and how to do that. I think Ames solves that in a way....

Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
May
Compton
Ames
Botham
Larwood
Barnes
Trueman
Laker

 

[harsh.ag]

Two all rounders in Grace and Hammond should really be enough. I would have picked Botham only if I thought him to be a better bowler than John Snow.

 

[Coronis]

Two all rounders in Grace and Hammond should really be enough. I would have picked Botham only if I thought him to be a better bowler than John Snow.

No need for Grace tbh.

 

[Red]

Two all rounders in Grace and Hammond should really be enough. I would have picked Botham only if I thought him to be a better bowler than John Snow.

I don't have Grace.

Botham's too good to leave out, as has been discussed he was the best allrounder ever for a few years. Botham took a similar amount of wickets per test to Snow, plus he is an explosive and dynamic batsman. An attack of Larwood, Trueman, Botham, Barnes and Laker, plus Hammond, is pretty damn good.

 

[harsh.ag]

No need for Grace tbh.

No need for this thread at all. But we have it because it's awesome I can't fathom an English XI without Grace. Doesn't makes sense to me.

I don't have Grace.

Botham's too good to leave out, as has been discussed he was the best allrounder ever for a few years. Botham took a similar amount of wickets per test to Snow, plus he is an explosive and dynamic batsman. An attack of Larwood, Trueman, Botham, Barnes and Laker, plus Hammond, is pretty damn good.

Leaving Botham out makes the bowling suffer, of course, but I think the plus in the batting makes up for it. But I get why he would be selected. Such a good all-rounder to have in your team.

 

[watson]

At his peak Botham was one of the best pace bowlers going around and therefore could easily fill the role of first change bowler. Also, Botham was most comfortable batting at No.7, and many of his greatest innings came in that position (eg Headingly 81);

01. Len Hutton
02. Jack Hobbs
03. Ted Dexter
04. Peter May
05. Walter Hammond
06. Frank Woolley
07. Ian Botham
08. Alan Knott
09. Jim Laker
10. John Snow
11. Fred Trueman

Snow - Trueman - Botham - Laker should have enough fire power to knock over any batting lineup, especially with the added variety of Woolley - Hammond - Dexter. If the wicket is 'sticky' then snow or Trueman should make way for Barnes.

A Botham-less team might look like;

01. Len Hutton
02. Jack Hobbs
03. Ted Dexter
04. Peter May
05. Walter Hammond
06. Ken Barrington
07. Alan Knott
08. Hedley Verity
09. John Snow
10. Fred Trueman
11. Sydney Barnes

 

[JBMAC]

At his peak Botham was one of the best pace bowlers going around and therefore could easily fill the role of first change bowler. Also, Botham was most comfortable batting at No.7, and many of his greatest innings came in that position (eg Headingly 81);

01. Len Hutton
02. Jack Hobbs
03. Ted Dexter
04. Peter May
05. Walter Hammond
06. Frank Woolley
07. Ian Botham
08. Alan Knott
09. Jim Laker
10. John Snow
11. Fred Trueman

Snow - Trueman - Botham - Laker should have enough fire power to knock over any batting lineup, especially with the added variety of Woolley - Hammond - Dexter. If the wicket is 'sticky' then snow or Trueman should make way for Barnes.

A Botham-less team might look like;

01. Len Hutton
02. Jack Hobbs
03. Ted Dexter
04. Peter May
05. Walter Hammond
06. Ken Barrington
07. Alan Knott
08. Hedley Verity
09. John Snow
10. Fred Trueman
11. Sydney Barnes

I do not disagree with your choice but wonder should Laker/Loch be considered as a pairing instead of Botham/Verity

 

[Red]

After reading Duncan Hamilton's bio on Larwood for the second time, I think Larwood is probably my favourite cricketer of all time. LOL has overtaken FOT.

 

[Red]

I do not disagree with your choice but wonder should Laker/Loch be considered as a pairing instead of Botham/Verity

Just on that, in my opinion Laker sits in the very top tier of spin bowlers with Warne, Murali, O'Reilly and Grimmett.

Did you see much of Laker?

 

[kyear2]

I personally place Warne, Murali and O'Reilly on the top tier by themselves with Laker and Grimmett in that's next tier right below.

 

[JBMAC]

Just on that, in my opinion Laker sits in the very top tier of spin bowlers with Warne, Murali, O'Reilly and Grimmett.

Did you see much of Laker?

One Test and one Test only. Circa 1958 when he and Lock bowled in tandem but they did not impress me. They only took a wicket or two each from memory. Having very little impact on the game overall, where as the Aussie spinner ie R.Benaud took 7 for the match. I do recall the pommie opening bowling partner was a joker named Loader and he did leave an impression. He opened with Statham.


PS: One thing I did recall later was the fact both Meckiff and Lock played in that game and both subsequently were called for chucking.It finished Meckiffs career and Lock changed his action and bowled for WA in the Shield

 

[Red]

One Test and one Test only. Circa 1958 when he and Lock bowled in tandem but they did not impress me. They only took a wicket or two each from memory. Having very little impact on the game overall, where as the Aussie spinner ie R.Benaud took 7 for the match. I do recall the pommie opening bowling partner was a joker named Loader and he did leave an impression. He opened with Statham.


PS: One thing I did recall later was the fact both Meckiff and Lock played in that game and both subsequently were called for chucking.It finished Meckiffs career and Lock changed his action and bowled for WA in the Shield

Lock captained WA for a time I believe, and is spoken of highly. I'd like to read a good bio on him.

It's a shame we don't see great spin pairings any more imo. Laker/Lock, O'Reilly/Grimmett, Chandra/Bedi, Warne, MacGill, Blackie/Ironmonger. I love seeing teams with two quicks, two spinners and an all rounder in the top six who can bowl med pace. Makes for much more interesting cricket imo.

It's great having someone on the forum who has seen so many of the great players of the earlier era. The earliest I can remember is the early 80s.

 

[Red]

ODI

Tendulkar
Gilchrist +
Ponting *
V. Richards
DeVilliers
Symonds
Flintoff
Wasim
Garner
Murali
Donald

Only gun fielders.

 

[honestbharani]

In what world was SAchin a gun fielder? He was adequate most of the time and had a great arm from the outfield but is he really better than a Mark Waugh?

 

[Red]

This has been done before but the task is to pick a balanced XI by selecting one player from each of the ten test playing nations. This team can be completed when Ireland get test status in the near future.

Selected in order of when the nations played their first tests.

The first selection, as usual, is Bradman. History's greatest batsman is the easiest choice.

Second is Jack Hobbs. While I sometimes prefer Hutton, there is no doubting England's ability to produce outstanding opening batsmen. Sutcliffe, Hutton and Hobbs are all top notch.

There is a wealth of talent among South Africans, but my choice here is Dale Steyn. As fine an opening bowler as ever has been, he is aggressive and talented.

It is tempting to choose a WI quick for this exercise, but it is impossible to go past Sobers. A great all rounder, the greatest.

The choice of NZ is relatively easy. Richard Hadlee is the equal of any quick bowler ever, and also has the ability to make runs down the order. Clearly NZ's greatest cricketer.

The temptation here is Sachin, but I will go for Sunny from India. A fine opening batsman who gives the team the balance it needs.

There are a number of Pakistani quicks who deserve selection, as well as a few middle order bats. Wasim perfectly compliments Hadlee and Steyn in this team, however.

The choice is Sri Lankans come down to Murali, Sanga and Mahela. Considering I will select a spinner from Bangladesh, my choice here is Sanga.

Zimbabwe have produced one clearly outstanding player, keeper/bat Andy Flower. Top six bat and handy keeper.

Bangladesh have only had 15 years test experience, and Shakib is clearly their best player thus far.

So the XI (ten) is...

Jack Hobbs
Sunny Gavaskar
Don Bradman
Kumar Sangakkara
Garry Sobers
Andy Flower
Shakib Al Hasan

Wasim Akram
Richard Hadlee
Dale Steyn

 

[OverratedSanity]

Let's dispell this myth that Flower was a good enough keeper for a World XI. He was a truly magnificent batsman, but he really wasn't a proper keeper...not even handy. Was regularly sloppy behind the stumps and mediocre at best.

 

[JBMAC]

Let's dispell this myth that Flower was a good enough keeper for a World XI. He was a truly magnificent batsman, but he really wasn't a proper keeper...not even handy. Was regularly sloppy behind the stumps and mediocre at best.

totally agree