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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #2851
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Indeed. Neither will we ever know if Viv Richards or Clive Lloyd would have ever made it as T20 cricketers. Would they have unaccountably adopted personas at odds with the way they normally have played cricket? We'll never know and therefore not even able to conjecture...

    The Nadkarni story reminds me of a similar experience Hutton had with Rhodes and then Grimmett. Both of whom he played with uncertainty and difficulty while facing them in the nets when both men were approaching 60 yrs of age. Hutton however had a blue riband record in overcoming bowlers like Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, O'Reilly, McCormick, Adcock, Tayfield, Valentine, Ramadhin and Heine not to mention the English bowlers he faced at county level. Whereas Amre's "ATG" skills brought him an average of 28 against the medium fast/spin based attack of Sri Lanka who opened their bowling innings with Gurisinha in one of those tests.

  2. #2852
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Indeed. Neither will we ever know if Viv Richards or Clive Lloyd would have ever made it as T20 cricketers. Would they have unaccountably adopted personas at odds with the way they normally have played cricket? We'll never know and therefore not even able to conjecture...
    You can conjecture all you want. But it does not stand up to comparisons to reality. It is not about adapting their natural personnas, it is about adaptation, period. Not every successful ODI player has translated into a successful T20 player either.

    The Nadkarni story reminds me of a similar experience Hutton had with Rhodes and then Grimmett. Both of whom he played with uncertainty and difficulty while facing them in the nets when both men were approaching 60 yrs of age. Hutton however had a blue riband record in overcoming bowlers like Lindwall, Miller, Johnston, O'Reilly, McCormick, Adcock, Tayfield, Valentine, Ramadhin and Heine not to mention the English bowlers he faced at county level. Whereas Amre's "ATG" skills brought him an average of 28 against the medium fast/spin based attack of Sri Lanka who opened their bowling innings with Gurisinha in one of those tests.
    Amre was a great 'could've been' and many a great player has had rough beginnings. Had Kallis been discarded at the same stage as Amre, he'd have ended with sub 20 batting and over 40 bowling average.
    It is intrinsically facile to compare a well established player with one who didnt play much. Having ATG accomplishments and having ATG skills are two different things, the latter i do not expect many on this forum to be able to identify simply because most here lack any real cricketing experience. That being said, the former is a product of the latter, compounded with opportunity, time and motivation.

  3. #2853
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muloghonto View Post


    Having ATG accomplishments and having ATG skills are two different things, the latter i do not expect many on this forum to be able to identify simply because most here lack any real cricketing experience. That being said, the former is a product of the latter, compounded with opportunity, time and motivation.
    I haven't a clue what you're on about mate, but its a cracking quote

  4. #2854
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    I haven't a clue what you're on about mate, but its a cracking quote
    Here's my guess from his quote. "If you haven't played the level of cricket I have, you can't tell the difference between someone with ATG skills and someone who has accomplished ATG type things.".


  5. #2855
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Look Monk has basically nailed it. Its a way of saying one's opinion is superior to any other; just bcos it is. so there. People like that are usually up themselves something chronic.

  6. #2856
    Eds
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    Essentially, he's an arse.
    "If that Swann lad is the future of spin bowling in this country, then we're ****ed." - Nasser Hussain, 1997.

  7. #2857
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Essentially. Its also funny that he makes a distinction btwn ATG skills and accomplishments. He could only fairly raise the distinction if I misunderstood his initial post. I did not. He mentioned ATG skills. I responded by referring to ATG skills. Quite why he then tried to explain a point as if I had misquoted him is just bizarre.

  8. #2858
    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Funniest thing is that theres probably quite a few on here who have played at a higher level than him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Essentially. Its also funny that he makes a distinction btwn ATG skills and accomplishments. He could only fairly raise the distinction if I misunderstood his initial post. I did not. He mentioned ATG skills. I responded by referring to ATG skills. Quite why he then tried to explain a point as if I had misquoted him is just bizarre.
    You'r kidding me, right ?

    Your comment was to deride Amre's ATG skills by pointing out how he failed against a fairly ordinary attack, while providing an example of Hutton having a similar experience. Ie, you brought in a player of ATG credentials on the basis of his ATG record. Since you are not old enough to've seen Hutton extensively, you obviously cannot be considered credible if you strictly brought up Hutton on the basis of his skills.
    I pointed it out to you, with example such as Kallis- that early career/short career means nothing really in evaluating a player because they could've been just the same, so much greater or worse.

    You didnt misquote me, your conjencture of Hutton's skills as a counterpoint to my assessment of Amre was in error.

  10. #2860
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoitsyou View Post
    Funniest thing is that theres probably quite a few on here who have played at a higher level than him.
    There probably are a few FC players here, though quite a few would not be what I'd expect of this site. But it is possible, i suppose.

  11. #2861
    Dan
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    Global Moderator / Cricket Web Staff Member Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoitsyou View Post
    Funniest thing is that theres probably quite a few on here who have played at a higher level than him.
    Nah mate, JimmyGS has nothing on this guy.

    EDIT: At thesaurus use, that is.
    ohnoitsyou likes this.

  12. #2862
    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muloghonto View Post
    Your comment was to deride Amre's ATG skills by pointing out how he failed against a fairly ordinary attack, while providing an example of Hutton having a similar experience. Ie, you brought in a player of ATG credentials on the basis of his ATG record. Since you are not old enough to've seen Hutton extensively, you obviously cannot be considered credible if you strictly brought up Hutton on the basis of his skills.
    I pointed it out to you, with example such as Kallis- that early career/short career means nothing really in evaluating a player because they could've been just the same, so much greater or worse.

    You didnt misquote me, your conjencture of Hutton's skills as a counterpoint to my assessment of Amre was in error.
    I mentioned Hutton bcos that is an assessment of a man who actually knows his cricket. So yeah the counterpoint was with you, not Amre. Your assessment of whom is further contradicted by comparing it with his actual record.
    Last edited by the big bambino; 31-03-2014 at 04:40 AM.

  13. #2863
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muloghonto View Post
    There probably are a few FC players here, though quite a few would not be what I'd expect of this site. But it is possible, i suppose.
    So, what have you played?

  14. #2864
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Favourite Australians.

    - David Boon
    - Mark Taylor
    - Neil Harvey
    - Mark Waugh
    - Keith Miller
    - Allan Border
    - Richie Benaud
    - Allan Davidson
    - Jack Blackham
    - Ray Linwdall
    - CTB Turner

    12th- Bruce Reid

  15. #2865
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    I mentioned Hutton bcos that is an assessment of a man who actually knows his cricket. So yeah the counterpoint was with you, not Amre. Your assessment of whom is further contradicted by comparing it with his actual record.
    That doesn't make any sense.



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