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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Teja.

Global Moderator
Mark Waugh is seriously underrated as an ODI batsman. Opening in his day, in Australia, called for a completely different role than the one played by Gilchrist/Hayden/Sehwag in the noughties and he balanced the difficulties of that role while cashing in when opportunities did arise. I'd have him open along with Tendulkar in my AT ODI XI.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Gilchrist had a strike rate of 96. A strike rate of 96 in an era when players had strike rates in the mid 70s. If a person is scoring at a 25% faster rate, his average is obviously going to suffer a lot. You can see how players get out so fast in T20 cricket. Yet, Gilchrist managed an average of nearly 37. That is mindblowingly remarkable. If a player averages 41 and scores at a S/R of 75, and another averages 36 and scores at a S/R of 96, I will always pick the player averaging 36 really. The difference is 5 runs but a quick start means your team wins more often than not.

One of the main reasons Sri Lanka and Australia were great ODI teams was because of the quick starts.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Ganguly scored a 50 or more in 94 of 277 completed innings: 33%.
Gilchrist scored a 50 or more in 71 of 268 completed innings: 26%.

It's an interesting comparion.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Ganguly scored a 50 or more in 94 of 277 completed innings: 33%.
Gilchrist scored a 50 or more in 71 of 268 completed innings: 26%.

It's an interesting comparion.
In fairness to GIlchrist, for those innings which sub-50 runs were made - a classical ODI opener like Ganguly would bat slower in the early part of the innings leading to a lower SR for those innings which he wouldn't compensate for by going big/accelerating later for that sample size.

GIlchrist on the other hand would be helping out massively with a 43 (34) or 33 (36) by getting his side off to a flyer and then have Ricky ****ing Ponting come in with the scorecard already ticking rapidly thereby those type of innings also enhancing his legacy.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
Ganguly scored a 50 or more in 94 of 277 completed innings: 33%.
Gilchrist scored a 50 or more in 71 of 268 completed innings: 26%.

It's an interesting comparion.
I used to rate Saeed Anwar ahead of Ganguly. Can you check the same stats for Anwar?
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Mark Waugh is seriously underrated as an ODI batsman. Opening in his day, in Australia, called for a completely different role than the one played by Gilchrist/Hayden/Sehwag in the noughties and he balanced the difficulties of that role while cashing in when opportunities did arise. I'd have him open along with Tendulkar in my AT ODI XI.
This is a classic case of, what I would like to call, gulping up of players by the stats devils over time. There were so many players of note, pre-war for instance, whom Cardus mentions in Days in the Sun. We forget so many of them now apart from the ones who some how still stand out in some way because of the stats.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
This is a classic case of, what I would like to call, gulping up of players by the stats devils over time. There were so many players of note, pre-war for instance, whom Cardus mentions in Days in the Sun. We forget so many of them now apart from the ones who some how still stand out in some way because of the stats.
Haha are you having a go at me for rating Waugh on stats or do you agree he's underrated? :p
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
I agree he is underrated. Mark Waugh was THE ODI player for Australia before Gilchrist and Hayden came and Ponting was still a bar stirring angsty boy. Australia's ODI line up consisted of Taylor, Steve Waugh, Ponting, Bevan. Who made all the runs on the top? Mark Waugh.
 
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weldone

Hall of Fame Member
Ya, I'll have Dhoni firmly above Abbas and Ponting if he plays some important knocks in the upcoming World Cup too.

Bevan vs Hussey is a question of longevity really. Hussey was a superb ODI player, but did he play for long enough?

Ganguly vs Gilchrist vs Jayasuriya vs M. Waugh is an interesting comparison. Much can be said about all sides of the story. However, if we give credit to Jayasuriya and Gilchrist for helping their respective countries win World Cups, we mustn't forget that Ganguly and M. Waugh came very close too. In fact, among the 4 probably only M. Waugh was clearly the best performer in the side for a WC (de Silva was better than Jayasuriya in 1996, Tendulkar was better than Ganguly in 2003, Hayden was better than Gilchrist in 2007).
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Might have been my bias in those days but I much preferred Anwar over Ganguly in terms of watching them bat.
Anwar was easily the more attractive batsman. Ganguly is like this guy whose bones are wired up tightly with each other and he tries to play all these strokes. Not the most pleasant to look at except when playing the off drives. Anwar meanwhile looked so silky and yet macho. I am not sure who was better. Ganguly has a better average but Anwar's strike rate is 7 points better. You could pick either and have valid enough reasons for your choice.
 
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OverratedSanity

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I'd have Hussey in the top 10. He has a case for being one of the best ever, because he could literally do everything... his game was equally good for batting high up the order, nudge quick singles and twos in the middle overs, could clear the boundary easily in the final overs and could chase down totals. Very few players can do all that as well as him. Dhoni the only one I guess..

Only problem is he never had a good World Cup, for a variety of reasons.
 
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longranger

U19 Cricketer
Any love for Yuvraj Singh here for an ODI XI? Destructive batsman, useful bowler and great fielder - made for ODI cricket
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I don't know if he'd make my top ten but in terms of the older guys I think Greg Chappell gets overlooked a bit as a real top rung ODI batsman.
 

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