The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

Smith for Hayden isn't a very bad option as that keeps Ponting away from captaincy. Sehwag will be there in any case because I'd like an ultra-aggressive opener with that middle-order.

If my XI lacks one thing that would be express pace - but I can't help it because Waqar/Donald/Steyn aren't as good ODI bowlers IMO. The only way Kallis can be in the ODI squad is by dropping Flintoff. But I can't bat him at places other than no. 3 or 4. That'll really mess the batting lineup. [Tendulkar/Ponting at no. 5 will both be misfits. And Lara at no. 6 will be a terrible option.]

Donald was a brilliant ODI bowler.

 

[weldone]

What I meant by 'Waqar/Donald/Steyn aren't as good ODI bowlers IMO' is 'Waqar/Donald/Steyn aren't as good ODI bowlers (as McGrath) IMO'

Pollock is irreplaceable in that team due to his batting at no. 8. That is a must in ODI, and in test too given that Flintoff isn't really a great no. 7 in test tbh. [A great no. 7 in test will be someone like Gilchrist.]

 

[ankitj]

Yeah, Donald was a fierce bowler. Can replace Pollock in that team.

 

[bagapath]

My team for both tests and ODIs from the Sachin era with the same batting order...

Hayden
Sehwag
Ponting
Lara
Pietersen
De Villiers (wk)
Pollock
Warne
Murali
McGrath
Donald

 

[Red]

I reckon I'd put Kallis at #4 for this. Assuming the same line up for tests and ODIs. Sorts your 5th bowler in ODIs more than adequately while losing nothing in your batting.

Hayden
G.Smith
Ponting
Kallis
KP
DeVilliers
Dhoni
Warne
Donald
Murali
McGrath

 

[Prince EWS]

Sorts your 5th bowler in ODIs more than adequately

The reason I'd leave Kallis out is the fact that I just wouldn't be that comfortable with his as the fifth bowler in an ODI against a team of equivalent quality to the one we're picking. He'd be fine in Tests but I'd really want a proper fifth bowler for the ODI side.

 

[bagapath]

I reckon I'd put Kallis at #4 for this. Assuming the same line up for tests and ODIs. Sorts your 5th bowler in ODIs more than adequately while losing nothing in your batting.

Hayden
G.Smith
Ponting
Kallis
KP
DeVilliers
Dhoni
Warne
Donald
Murali
McGrath

i love smith. but i would choose sehwag over him in both tests and ODIs.

 

[Red]

The reason I'd leave Kallis out is the fact that I just wouldn't be that comfortable with his as the fifth bowler in an ODI against a team of equivalent quality to the one we're picking. He'd be fine in Tests but I'd really want a proper fifth bowler for the ODI side.

That's fair enough.
Did SA generally consider Kallis as one of the five main bowlers in the ODI teams?
Probably replace him with Cairns if I had to make a change, and give AB the gloves. On reflection, this'd work ok for this exercise...

Smith
Hayden
Ponting
Lara
AB+
M.Hussey
Cairns
Mitch Johnson
Murali
Donald
McGrath

 

[Prince EWS]

Did SA generally consider Kallis as one of the five main bowlers in the ODI teams?

Yeah they did, and he did pretty well, but South Africa typically played against teams that were a class below the one we're selecting. Assuming the team we're picking will play against a similar standard opposition, I'd be uncomfortable with Kallis bowling 20% of the overs.

 

[Red]

I reckon I'd be pretty comfortable with Kallis bowling ten. I rate his bowling quite highly, but I can see why people would prefer 5 proper frontline bowlers.

 

[NUFAN]

What I meant by 'Waqar/Donald/Steyn aren't as good ODI bowlers IMO' is 'Waqar/Donald/Steyn aren't as good ODI bowlers (as McGrath) IMO'

Waqar does not meet criteria.

I was trying to come up with a 2nd XI to play against your team. It gets difficult especially if you can't manufacture your team a little by opening with Dravid or thinking ABdV has done enough as a gloveman to realistically be considered. Also I think 3 of the best batsman available are Dravid, Sangakkara and Kallis but I don't exactly love having them at 3-5 in an ODI outfit. It might mean Graeme Smith's opening partner would have to be pretty attacking and worse than Gary Kirsten just to give the ODI outfit a boost. Someone like Sanath Jayasuriya would come into contention.

 

[Prince EWS]

Waqar does not meet criteria.

I was trying to come up with a 2nd XI to play against your team. It gets difficult especially if you can't manufacture your team a little by opening with Dravid or thinking ABdV has done enough as a gloveman to realistically be considered. Also I think 3 of the best batsman available are Dravid, Sangakkara and Kallis but I don't exactly love having them at 3-5 in an ODI outfit. It might mean Graeme Smith's opening partner would have to be pretty attacking and worse than Gary Kirsten just to give the ODI outfit a boost. Someone like Sanath Jayasuriya would come into contention.

1. Smith
2. Dravid
3. Sanga
4. Kallis
5. Pietersen
6. de Villiers
7. Hussey
8. Vaas
9. Kumble
10. Steyn
11. Donald

 

[weldone]

Waqar does not meet criteria.

I was trying to come up with a 2nd XI to play against your team. It gets difficult especially if you can't manufacture your team a little by opening with Dravid or thinking ABdV has done enough as a gloveman to realistically be considered. Also I think 3 of the best batsman available are Dravid, Sangakkara and Kallis but I don't exactly love having them at 3-5 in an ODI outfit. It might mean Graeme Smith's opening partner would have to be pretty attacking and worse than Gary Kirsten just to give the ODI outfit a boost. Someone like Sanath Jayasuriya would come into contention.

You're right regarding Waqar (I forgot his ODI debut).

2nd XI is difficult, I may go with this one:

Graeme Smith*
Rahul Dravid
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara+
Mahela Jayawardene
Michael Hussey
Chris Cairns
Dale Steyn
Anil Kumble
Saqlain Mushtaq
Allan Donald

 

[NUFAN]

1. Smith
2. Dravid
3. Sanga
4. Kallis
5. Pietersen
6. de Villiers
7. Hussey
8. Vaas
9. Kumble
10. Steyn
11. Donald

I'm slightly surprised with this team given that:

The reason I'd leave Kallis out is the fact that I just wouldn't be that comfortable with his as the fifth bowler in an ODI against a team of equivalent quality to the one we're picking. He'd be fine in Tests but I'd really want a proper fifth bowler for the ODI side.

 

[Prince EWS]

Never said I was happy with it. Best side anyway IMO; no real solutions to that problem in the Second XI.

 

[weldone]

Never said I was happy with it. Best side anyway IMO; no real solutions to that problem in the Second XI.

Chris Cairns?

 

[NUFAN]

Never said I was happy with it. Best side anyway IMO; no real solutions to that problem in the Second XI.

You could go:

1 Smith
2 Jayasuriya
3 Dravid
4 Kallis
5 Sangakkara
6 Pietersen
7 Dhoni (you love him)
8 Steyn
9 Saqlain
10 Akhtar
11 Donald

#aussiehater

 

[Prince EWS]

I think I'd sooner pick Watson than Jayasuriya.

And yeah, no way am I picking Dhoni.

 

[longranger]

My selection (90s special)

1. Anwar
2. Gooch
3. Lara
4. Tendulkar
5. Inzamam
6. S Waugh (c)
7. Healy (wk)
8. Warne
9. Wasim (2)
10. Donald
11. McGrath (1)

 

[weldone]

My selection (90s special)

1. Anwar
2. Gooch
3. Lara
4. Tendulkar
5. Inzamam
6. S Waugh (c)
7. Healy (wk)
8. Warne
9. Wasim (2)
10. Donald
11. McGrath (1)

Having a 90s XI without Curtly Ambrose is a criminal offence.

On a serious note, that's the only change I'll make - Ambrose for McGrath...and Wasim will bat ahead of Warne