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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #2491
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post


    Captaincy is so subjective, is it about results, tactical ability or player management skills?

    For me at the end of the day, a captain and his results are as good as the players around him.
    Agree with both points.

    I think Imran had as much tactical mastery as any good skipper. His results were also as good as they could be in the Windies dominated era. His man management skills were too autocratic and tailored to suit the pakistan players of that era.

    Since that style is not right for all combos, and because his results and tactical skills are not anyway significantly superior to his peers, I don't think he was a great skipper. Merely a good one.
    kyear2 likes this.

  2. #2492
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Pick your team then the best slip cordon from among them.

    Yes I see the cordon as being important to a teams success, I have heard some argue that Wasim was not as great as he could have been because Pakistan never had the catching support that Marshall, Mcgrath, Lillee, Ambrose ect had, that in itself speaks volumes. I personally think it was more than just that, but catching support does make a difference and few things demoralise a team more that a dropped catch in the slips.

    As I have said if I have two equal players up for one position, Warne and Murali or Chappell and Pollock for example, I will use the fact that Chappell and Warne were superb and very good slippers respectively as a tie break between the two players. I fail to see what is wrong with that argument. At a hypothetical ATG level vs great opposing batsmen and with fast bolwers like Lillee, Marshall ect having a great cordon is a must and I believe of greater importance with these great players than a great captain.
    ankitj likes this.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  3. #2493
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    I have always felt that the slip cordon is an outcome of the bowling that you possess. If you have bouncy pitches or bowlers who regularly create those sort of chances behind the wicket then your slip cordon will be trained for that. Of course then you have people like Mark Waugh who are genuinely good catchers and who will do well with catching regardless of where you put them.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  4. #2494
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    In my dream team, when Marshall gets ready to bowl and Gilly is standing 20 yards behind the stumps, I have Bradman at point and Hobbs at cover. Murali is at mid off or mid on. And Hadlee stands 10 yards to the right of the square leg umpire. Sobers is at short leg. Gavaskar, Richards, Warne and Lara all stand in the slips. Sometimes Imran replaces Murali and Lillee steps in for Hadlee but the field remains pretty much the same for the first over.


  5. #2495
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    I have always felt that the slip cordon is an outcome of the bowling that you possess. If you have bouncy pitches or bowlers who regularly create those sort of chances behind the wicket then your slip cordon will be trained for that. Of course then you have people like Mark Waugh who are genuinely good catchers and who will do well with catching regardless of where you put them.
    I think Warne, Sobers and Viv is a pretty good slip cordon. Plus we can always have 12th man Hammond, Kallis or Ponting to supplement that lot.
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.

  6. #2496
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Slips are vital and should play in prominent role in selection.

    Where you have two players of equal batting ability and one is great in the slips and the other is poor, it's a big consideration.

    G. Chappell v Tendulkar at #4 in an ATG side is an example. I view them as on par as batsmen, so I'll take Chappell's outstanding slip fielding every time.
    kyear2 and Justo like this.

  7. #2497
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    But I do like Harsh's point that you can have your`12th man as an awesome fielder as well and put him in whatever position on the field that you want to

  8. #2498
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Of course he is the best captain. Denied a series win in the caribbean in the 1980s due to cheating umpires and the only one to probably take the WI to sword at their home in the 1980s. Series wins in England, India, and SL. Great eye for picking talent and excellent man manager. And not being stupid enough to declare and lose the match (like Garry Sobers ).
    thats not true. he didnt win the series in sri lanka. that was a drawn series. when SL visited PAK in '91 Pak beat them in home conditions.

    Dont worry smali. I wont say "as usual you are just being disingenuous" (though I may think that)
    Last edited by bagapath; 04-08-2013 at 11:31 PM.

  9. #2499
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    speaking of ATG teams and slip catching, watch this video; courtesy our robelinda

    Dennis Lillee vs Pakistan 1976/77 - YouTube

  10. #2500
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Greg Chappell was absolutely amazing in the slips, a huge factor why he makes my second team.

  11. #2501
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Just a bit of a change of subject, although related to the thread - who would make your 21st century team Australian team? You can't be named in two teams, sorry Warne.

    The 20th century team was:
    1 Bill Ponsford
    2 Arthur Morris
    3 Don Bradman (captain)
    4 Greg Chappell
    5 Neil Harvey
    6 Keith Miller (vice-captain)
    7 Ian Healy (wicket-keeper)
    8 Ray Lindwall
    9 Shane Warne
    10 Dennis Lillee
    11 Bill O'Reilly
    Allan Border (12th man)

    21st century team
    1 Matthew Hayden
    2 Justin Langer
    3 Ricky Ponting
    4 Michael Clarke
    5 Steve Waugh
    6 Michael Hussey
    7 Adam Gilchrist
    8 Jason Gillespie
    9 Peter Siddle
    10 Stuart MacGill
    11 Glenn McGrath

    Yep, the whole exercise was so I can put Siddle in the team

    Also, has there ever been a 19th century Australian team published?

  12. #2502
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    A couple of years ago Inside Cricket released a special to celebrate someone being capped as Aust's 400th test player. Thought they were really interesting teams, one team was selected from the first 100 cricketers, one from the second, and so on....

    I can't find them online though. I'll see if I can find the mag at home.

  13. #2503
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    ODI cricket is 42 years old this year. Dividing its history into three equal parts....

    ODI XI 1971 - 1985

    Greenidge
    Haynes
    V. Richards (6)
    G. Chappell (5)
    Zaheer Abbas
    Lloyd (C)
    Dujon (wk)
    Hadlee (2)
    Holding (1)
    Qadir (4)
    Garner (3)

    ODI XI 1985 - 1999

    Tendulkar
    Jayasuriya (5)
    De Silva
    Jones
    Bevan
    Flower (wk)
    Waugh (C) (6)
    Akram (1)
    Saqlain (4)
    Waqar (2)
    Donald (3)

    ODI XI 1999 - 2013

    Hayden
    Gilchrist (wk)
    Ponting
    Kallis (5)
    Symonds (7)
    Dhoni (C)
    Klusener (6)
    Pollock (4)
    Lee (2)
    Murali (3)
    McGrath (1)

    The Rejects XI

    Anwar
    Watson (6)
    Lara
    Pietersen
    De Villiers (wk)
    Hussey
    Flintoff (5)
    Imran (C) (2)
    Kapil (3)
    Warne (4)
    Lillee (1)
    Last edited by bagapath; 07-08-2013 at 09:03 PM.

  14. #2504
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Just a bit of a change of subject, although related to the thread - who would make your 21st century team Australian team? You can't be named in two teams, sorry Warne.

    The 20th century team was:
    1 Bill Ponsford
    2 Arthur Morris
    3 Don Bradman (captain)
    4 Greg Chappell
    5 Neil Harvey
    6 Keith Miller (vice-captain)
    7 Ian Healy (wicket-keeper)
    8 Ray Lindwall
    9 Shane Warne
    10 Dennis Lillee
    11 Bill O'Reilly
    Allan Border (12th man)

    21st century team
    1 Matthew Hayden
    2 Justin Langer
    3 Ricky Ponting
    4 Michael Clarke
    5 Steve Waugh
    6 Michael Hussey
    7 Adam Gilchrist
    8 Jason Gillespie
    9 Peter Siddle
    10 Stuart MacGill
    11 Glenn McGrath

    Yep, the whole exercise was so I can put Siddle in the team

    Also, has there ever been a 19th century Australian team published?
    my 20th century aussie team

    trumper
    morris
    bradman (c)
    g.chappell
    harvey
    border
    miller
    healy (wk)
    lindwall
    lillee
    oreilly

    my 21st century aussie team

    hayden
    langer
    ponting
    clarke
    hussey
    s.waugh (c)
    gilchrist (wk)
    warne
    gillespie
    siddle
    mcgrath

  15. #2505
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    my 20th century aussie team

    trumper
    morris
    bradman (c)
    g.chappell
    harvey
    border
    miller
    healy (wk)
    lindwall
    lillee
    oreilly

    my 21st century aussie team

    hayden
    langer
    ponting
    clarke
    hussey
    s.waugh (c)
    gilchrist (wk)
    warne
    gillespie
    siddle
    mcgrath
    Yeah good teams. I would go with both of them too IF I could have included Warne in the 21st team. Hardest decision is the 20th century opener. I would play Trumper but not certain on who should partner him really.



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