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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
A little all rounders XI. Would not be able to take my eyes off the batting from Miller-Procter. Doubt there'd ever be a dull moment with the bowling either.
Single skills XI- batsmen with no test wickets, bowlers with a batting avg under 10, keeper not a renowned batsman

Herb Sutcliffe
Gordon Greenidge
Clem Hill
Brian Lara
Peter May
Mohammed Yousuf
Bob Taylor +
Glenn McGrath
Courtney Walsh
Bishen Bedi
Neil Adcock
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Single skills XI- batsmen with no test wickets, bowlers with a batting avg under 10, keeper not a renowned batsman

Herb Sutcliffe
Gordon Greenidge
Clem Hill
Brian Lara
Peter May
Mohammed Yousuf
Bob Taylor +
Glenn McGrath
Courtney Walsh
Bishen Bedi
Neil Adcock
Herbert Sutcliffe
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Brian Lara
Kumar Sangakkara
Rohan Kanhai
Don Tallon +
Glenn McGrath
Subhash Gupte
Courtney Walsh
Neil Adcock
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Simpson
Barlow
Kallis
Sobers
Faulkner
Miller
Gilchrist+
Botham
Procter
Imran
Hadlee

A little all rounders XI. Would not be able to take my eyes off the batting from Miller-Procter. Doubt there'd ever be a dull moment with the bowling either.
W G Grace
Charlie Macartney
Jacques Kallis
Garry Sobers
Aubrey Faulkner
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Richie Benaud
Alan Davidson

:) Feel awful at leaving out Botham, Procter, and Kapil. But I think Davidson was a better pace bowler than the three of them, plus there seemed to be a need for a quality spin bowler. So....
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Single skills XI- batsmen with no test wickets, bowlers with a batting avg under 10, keeper not a renowned batsman

Herb Sutcliffe
Gordon Greenidge
Clem Hill
Brian Lara
Peter May
Mohammed Yousuf
Bob Taylor +
Glenn McGrath
Courtney Walsh
Bishen Bedi
Neil Adcock
Herbert Sutcliffe
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Brian Lara
Kumar Sangakkara
Rohan Kanhai
Don Tallon +
Glenn McGrath
Subhash Gupte
Courtney Walsh
Neil Adcock
You know a teams batting is awful when McGrath is at 8 and Walsh isn't at No. 11

Great idea guys, good teams too, edge to Harsh though.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Looking at the all rounder and single skills XI's, it made me wonder about what goes into most persons criteria for an ATG XI.

Personally I go for a dominant No. 3, the rest of the middle order generally also attacking with one batsman who can anchor if required. A wicket keeper who can handle a bat and a batting and bowling all rounder and preferably three but at least two great (with one top tier) slip fielders. For the bowling attack, at least one of the bowlers must be genuine express, while a swing bowler and a metronome are the ideal compliments, though not always possible. The tail should also be handy while (serviceable) batting down to No. 10.

That combination should result in a pretty well balanced (and over thought) team.
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Looking at the all rounder and single skills XI's, it made me wonder about what goes into most persons criteria for an ATG XI.

Personally I go for a dominant No. 3, the rest of the middle order generally also attacking with one batsman who can anchor if required. A wicket keeper who can handle a bat and a batting and bowling all rounder and preferably three but at least two great (with one top tier) slip fielders. For the bowling attack, at least one of the bowlers must be genuine express, while a swing bowler and a metronome are the ideal compliments, though not always possible. The tail should also be handy while (serviceable) batting down to No. 10.

That combination should result in a pretty well balanced (and over thought) team.
I change mine all the time depending who I've recently read about!

My current sig is one I really like though. I am of the firm belief that Hutton is the greatest opener ever, he faced great attacks and thrived, and I'm a big fan of Gavaskar, in spite of the fact you can pull apart his record a bit. To average 50+ as an opener in the 70s is unreal, and he was such a beautifully poised and balanced player. I think Gavaskar was doing what Tendulkar did so well in an era of great fast bowlers 20 years before Tendulkar.

Bradman is Bradman, obviously. Then I love Pollock at #4, Viv at #5 and Sobers at #6. Completely capable of taking the game away in a session or two. Pragmatically, I'd have Sachin in place of Pollock, simply because he is such a well rounded player, and perfect for #4, but Pollock is a fave at the moment. I won't be swayed from Viv at #5, because of his aggression and ability to intimidate bowlers (that famous Imran quote). Sobers is Sobers, second batsman selected and a great option with the ball.

I'm happy with either Gilly or Knott as keeper and #7, but tbh recently I read Gilly's autobio and I was a little underwhelmed by it. And I love Knott's quirkiness, dogged batting and elite keeping. So it's Knott for now.

Marshall, Lillee and Ambrose give me everything I want in an pace attack (apart from a left armer). They are diverse (skiddy, classical, tall) and aggressive and relentless. All have good bouncers, all sustain pace over a long day, and all are intimidating predators. I've oft said I'm happy with any of the top 15 quicks of all time, but I like this trio particularly. I hate leaving out Hadlee and McGrath particularly, and I am a big fan of Lindwall, but the three I've chosen do it for me.

I gravitate between Warne and O'Reilly. I dislike Warne the man, but to me he mastered the hardest skill in cricket and sustained that for well over a decade. He also has that will to win, and that never say die thing. He is also a massive show pony and tin arse who seems to have things fall his way. But really, I think you make your own luck, with skill. So Warne it is (he can also bat and field better than O'Reilly). I do love Murali the man, and love his ability, but I will forever struggle with the chucking thing, which is a shame, but it is what it is.

This team also has a plethora of good slippers- Warne, Pollock and Sunny, as well as Viv and Sobers who were great in the slips, or in the covers/midwicket area.
 
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watson

Banned
Yeah, I like the team too.

Knott through to Ambrose gives a tail that is probably weaker than most peoples selections as it misses out on Gilchrist, then Imran or Hadlee at No.8. However, there is something inherently appealing about Marshall, Lillee, and Ambrose bowling together, especially with Knott behind the stumps.

I now hold the view after a fair amount of reading and gathering of opinions that SF Barnes typical speed when he had the new ball was around the 120kph mark. I would hesitate in picking a first change bowler any slower than that, but at around the 120 kph mark the combination of the 'magnus effect' and his finger-spun leg-breaks would prove to be extremely difficult to any batsman from any period that you care to mention.

I'm therefore gravitating toward Knott-Marshall-Warne-Lillee- Barnes as my combo.
 
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harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Marshall, Lillee and Ambrose give me everything I want in an pace attack (apart from a left armer). They are diverse (skiddy, classical, tall) and aggressive and relentless. All have good bouncers, all sustain pace over a long day, and all are intimidating predators. I've commonly said I'm happy with any of the top 15 quicks of all time, but I like this trio particularly. I hate leaving out Hadlee and McGrath particularly, and I am a big fan of Lindwall, but these three do it for me.
Exactly my favorite attack. To the tee.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I now hold the view after a fair amount of reading and gathering of opinions that SF Barnes typical speed when he had the new ball was around the 120kph mark. I would hesitate in picking a first change bowler any slower than that, but at around the 120 kph mark the combination of the 'magnus effect' and his finger-spun leg-breaks would prove to be extremely difficult to any batsman from any period that you care to mention.

I'm therefore gravitating toward Knott-Marshall-Warne-Lillee- Barnes as my combo.
I want to give Barnes his due recognition, but it's so hard to gauge guys who played pre WW2 imo. I think there were some major differences in the game (not to get in to the whole "champion in one era thing") that make it hard to compare.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I change mine all the time depending who I've recently read about!

My current sig is one I really like though. I am of the firm belief that Hutton is the greatest opener ever, he faced great attacks and thrived, and I'm a big fan of Gavaskar, in spite of the fact you can pull apart his record a bit. To average 50+ as an opener in the 70s is unreal, and he was such a beautifully poised and balanced player. I think Gavaskar was doing what Tendulkar did so well in an era of great fast bowlers 20 years before Tendulkar.

Bradman is Bradman, obviously. Then I love Pollock at #4, Viv at #5 and Sobers at #6. Completely capable of taking the game away in a session or two. Pragmatically, I'd have Sachin in place of Pollock, simply because he is such a well rounded player, and perfect for #4, but Pollock is a fave at the moment. I won't be swayed from Viv at #5, because of his aggression and ability to intimidate bowlers (that famous Imran quote). Sobers is Sobers, second batsman selected and a great option with the ball.

I'm happy with either Gilly or Knott as keeper and #7, but tbh recently I read Gilly's autobio and I was a little underwhelmed by it. And I love Knott's quirkiness, dogged batting and elite keeping. So it's Knott for now.

Marshall, Lillee and Ambrose give me everything I want in an pace attack (apart from a left armer). They are diverse (skiddy, classical, tall) and aggressive and relentless. All have good bouncers, all sustain pace over a long day, and all are intimidating predators. I've oft said I'm happy with any of the top 15 quicks of all time, but I like this trio particularly. I hate leaving out Hadlee and McGrath particularly, and I am a big fan of Lindwall, but the three I've chosen do it for me.

I gravitate between Warne and O'Reilly. I dislike Warne the man, but to me he mastered the hardest skill in cricket and sustained that for well over a decade. He also has that will to win, and that never say die thing. He is also a massive show pony and tin arse who seems to have things fall his way. But really, I think you make your own luck, with skill. So Warne it is (he can also bat and field better than O'Reilly). I do love Murali the man, and love his ability, but I will forever struggle with the chucking thing, which is a shame, but it is what it is.

This team also has a plethora of good slippers- Warne, Pollock and Sunny, as well as Viv and Sobers who were great in the slips, or in the covers/midwicket area.
Yup, Sobers by some distance was the best of that lot though, Pollock probably the weakest.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I like the team too.

Knott through to Ambrose gives a tail that is probably weaker than most peoples selections as it misses out on Gilchrist, then Imran or Hadlee at No.8. However, there is something inherently appealing about Marshall, Lillee, and Ambrose bowling together, especially with Knott behind the stumps.

I now hold the view after a fair amount of reading and gathering of opinions that SF Barnes typical speed when he had the new ball was around the 120kph mark. I would hesitate in picking a first change bowler any slower than that, but at around the 120 kph mark the combination of the 'magnus effect' and his finger-spun leg-breaks would prove to be extremely difficult to any batsman from any period that you care to mention.

I'm therefore gravitating toward Knott-Marshall-Warne-Lillee- Barnes as my combo.
Anecdotally can't beat the combo of Marshall, Lillee, Barnes and Warne and is my second choice for the best attack.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ken Barrington not making the cut either. A little strange, considering Herbert Sutcliffe makes the cut (as he should).
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I don't find it strange from Crowe. Players such as Barrington and Boycott don't seem like the type of players that would attract Crowe especially when he says the following "A player who gets in has to reek of richness, genius, the extraordinary, excellence, the X factor. He must inspire reverence". Good list IMO.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't find it strange from Crowe. Players such as Barrington and Boycott don't seem like the type of players that would attract Crowe especially when he says the following "A player who gets in has to reek of richness, genius, the extraordinary, excellence, the X factor. He must inspire reverence". Good list IMO.
I get that. That's why I asked "Why Sutcliffe then?"
 

OverratedSanity

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I get that. That's why I asked "Why Sutcliffe then?"
Barrington doesn't really have any memorable performances which come to mind while Sutcliffe has more than a handful, like that 161 at, I think, Brisbane ... Had lots of great innings on stickies, too.Such things generally colour peoples opinions.

Some who didn't make the cut are: Steve Waugh, Andy Flower, Ray Lindwall, Joel Garner, Greenidge, Alan Davidson, Virat Kohli etc. Davidson never seems to get selected in such things :(
 
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OverratedSanity

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Crowe also picked Wasim over Imran in the first XI which has never ever made sense to me, yet that's what all the experts seem to do. Baffling.

Nice selections overall from him though
 
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