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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #2191
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    What makes you think Imran can't bowl with the new ball? He opened the bowling pretty much all his career.
    Well of course Imran can bowl with the new ball because he is an excellent new ball bowler. But I just so happen to prefer Lillee and Marshall, that's all.
    "I strongly feel the ICC should take action to ban the doosra since it just cannot be bowled legally. Ashley Mallett has said the 'doosra is nothing but chucking' and Australian spinners, including Shane Warne, have raised an alarm against coaching it in Australia." - BISHAN BEDI (2010)

  2. #2192
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    the rating for Viv who played 74-91 above the like of Sunil or Border for the same times and similar averages, when Sunil and Border made runs when their teams needed them. Ugly runs but full of heart.

  3. #2193
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Well of course Imran can bowl with the new ball because he is an excellent new ball bowler. But I just so happen to prefer Lillee and Marshall, that's all.
    ok....you could have said this much earler?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  4. #2194
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Imran is close to Marshall as a fast bowler, but it would be a brave person who would suggest that he was Marshall's equal or better. I do find this a bid odd because Imran's raw bowling stats are superior in some respects. But there you go.

    Imran can't be compared to Warne or Sobers because their skills were completely different. However, we can say that Imran's main opposition to the No.8 spot in the ATG XI team are Richard Hadlee and Mike Procter. And this would be after a convincing case has been made for the mandatory inclusion of a bowling-allrounder in the bottom 4, rather than another pure bowler like Lillee, McGrath, Donald, Akram, Waqar, or Barnes.
    That is an interesting point, I normally have my teams very structured with a bowling all rounder, batting all rounder and at least three good slip fielders in each 11, but with the batting that the team possesses and the fact that Marshall and Warne were quite good with the bat as well not that important to have a bowling allrounder, but rather a superior bolwer like Ambrose or Trueman or even Lillee would be preferred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Yes, I believe Lillee is overrated as a bowler, and Imran's batting is overrated. Probably why neither of them make my First XI.
    Fully agree with that, Lillee is overrated if one listens to the like of Benaud and others who clearly places him as the best and by some distance which to me he clearly isn't and it's not close. Imran's case is much clearer and a bit amazing that some like to combine his bolwing from the start of his career and his batting from his later days. Can't have it both ways. It's just that the talent of the bowling All Rounders is more shallow than any other positions, even more that Openers and Spinners, so Imran wins out over Hadlee (who is severly over rated as a batsman and bolwer, but thats just my opnion.) Miller (weakens your batting if placed in the top 6 and bowling if part of a four man attack as a primary bowler) and Procter who just didn't play enough, to push it futher Botham would fall into a similar catergory as Miller and his peak was just so short.

    So Imran it is, because as Smali says, if you have a bowler as good as Lillee, but can bat a bit, then no reason not to select him, though Ambrose and Trueman are for me superior bolwers.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3


  5. #2195
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    Have heard much on the fielding of Hobbs/Bradman/Hammond/Sobers/Procter, and seen a lot of Gilchrist/Warne/McGrath. Was curious, does anybody know anything about Sutcliffe, Pollock and Marshall's fielding?
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  6. #2196
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Know Marshall was very good in the outfield and in the circle, know nothing of Pollock or Sutcliffe.

  7. #2197
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post

    Fully agree with that, Lillee is overrated if one listens to the like of Benaud and others who clearly places him as the best and by some distance which to me he clearly isn't and it's not close..
    There is a reason why some people rate Lillee number one. They saw him bowl and what he could do. They saw his aggression and his will to win and dominate. They saw the fact that when most other bowlers needed a rest, he wanted more and more overs.
    Last edited by Monk; 30-06-2013 at 05:03 PM.

  8. #2198
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    So Imran it is, because as Smali says, if you have a bowler as good as Lillee, but can bat a bit, then no reason not to select him, though Ambrose and Trueman are for me superior bolwers.
    i'd say Lindwall falls into that category too then

  9. #2199
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    Quote Originally Posted by schearzie View Post
    i'd say Lindwall falls into that category too then
    Davidson too.

  10. #2200
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Imran scored his first Test century against the West Indies in 1980 (The bowlers were Clarke, Croft, Marshall, and Garner). And he scored his last Test Century against Australia in 1990 (The bowlers were Hughes, Rackeman, Campbell, and Taylor).

    The point being that for a full decade Imran was a competent batsman and excellent No.7 or No.8. His average did peak between 1987-1990, but this does not mean that he didn't average well between 1980-86, or that he wasn't a bowling-allrounder of the highest order during that time;

    HowSTAT! Player Analysis by Year

    However, I am struggling to find a Test where Imran emulated Ian Botham and impacted a match with BOTH bat and ball (maybe someone else can find a good example!). In that respect Imran is a deficient allrounder in a way that other great allrounders are not.

  11. #2201
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Imran scored his first Test century against the West Indies in 1980 (The bowlers were Clarke, Croft, Marshall, and Garner). And he scored his last Test Century against Australia in 1990 (The bowlers were Hughes, Rackeman, Campbell, and Taylor).

    The point being that for a full decade Imran was a competent batsman and excellent No.7 or No.8. His average did peak between 1987-1990, but this does not mean that he didn't average well between 1980-86, or that he wasn't a bowling-allrounder of the highest order during that time;

    HowSTAT! Player Analysis by Year

    However, I am struggling to find a Test where Imran emulated Ian Botham and impacted a match with BOTH bat and ball (maybe someone else can find a good example!). In that respect Imran is a deficient allrounder in a way that other great allrounders are not.
    there was this match:

    3rd Test: Pakistan v India at Faisalabad, Jan 3-8, 1983 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

    1982/83 against India Imran got 6/98 then 117 (strike rate 96.69) then 5/82. not sure of any other matches though...

  12. #2202
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gowza View Post
    there was this match:

    3rd Test: Pakistan v India at Faisalabad, Jan 3-8, 1983 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

    1982/83 against India Imran got 6/98 then 117 (strike rate 96.69) then 5/82. not sure of any other matches though...
    Well done. Because the match was played in 1983 his century would also go against the common notion that Imran could only really bat during the latter part of his career.

  13. #2203
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    you could check out the 1981-92 series in England. Topped the bowling averages and was right up there in the batting averages for the series too. Although Pakistan lost 1-2 but still he was the standout player in that series. Also I think in the 1986-87 series in England which Pakistan did win and Imran got the man of the series.

  14. #2204
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    I wonder if there are any Cricketers from kyear's top 3 ATG sides (who bat in the top 6) who don't make DoG's 100 best batsman of all time?

    IIt would have to be a pretty weirdly selected player if he can't find a place in the top 100..

  15. #2205
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    I wonder if there are any Cricketers from kyear's top 3 ATG sides (who bat in the top 6) who don't make DoG's 100 best batsman of all time?

    IIt would have to be a pretty weirdly selected player if he can't find a place in the top 100..
    Doubt anyone would miss out from his 4th, either.



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