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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Jager

International Debutant
There's not much point in a 'swag of runs' if you don't have enough time to bowl the opposition out twice.
There's hardly a batsman out there who has no ability to accelerate though. Many defensive batsmen have made big double tons and more in winning sides, and defensive players are extremely valuable as anchors - Dravid, Kallis, Barrington, Border, Waugh etc. all in that mould.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Miller would've averaged 50+ if he didn't bowl, the same way that Sanhakkara would've averaged 70 if he didn't keep.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
So are we ready to start to select a consensus 11 for each country? I was thinking a mini vote here in the thread where emphasis goes goes to forum members from the country in question. We could choose the teams in alphabetical order.
Really looking forward to a West Indies, Aussie final, but any of South Africa, Pakistan or England could crash the party.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sanga averages 69.63 in the 63 tests he has played in without the gloves, with 23 hundreds. Some remarkable stats are him averaging 84.9 in 6 tests in 2004, 121.60 in 4 tests in 2006, 138.28 in 7 tests in 2007, and 99.28 in 6 tests in 2010.

Plus his record against every nation apart from England is fantastic as a specialist bat.
 

Jager

International Debutant
So are we ready to start to select a consensus 11 for each country? I was thinking a mini vote here in the thread where emphasis goes goes to forum members from the country in question. We could choose the teams in alphabetical order.
Really looking forward to a West Indies, Aussie final, but any of South Africa, Pakistan or England could crash the party.
Then we will sim games? Sounds good either way.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
@watson saying that the WI quicks would destroy Bradman or Hobbs almost as a guarantee on a green wicket is definitely overkill to be honest - I think we, as a forum, tend to overrate the impact of the legendary quicks overall. Sure they'd be bloody good, but even the WI quartets played together and lost test matches/failed to bowl sides out, and that was against sides with one or two great batsmen instead of five or six.

@kyear I rate Chappell and Harvey up there for sure. Sobers second in my eyes though.

@Monk I could never place Lindsay as SA's keeper - either Cameron or Waite for me, toss of a coin really.
Marshall played 81 tests and lost 9, 5 of which were after 1990 when he was past his best ans no longer opening the bowling. In his prime from 1981 - 1988 he lost 3 matches, thats not him and Holding and Garner, thats just him. In 52 matches Bradman, with an equally giod or better surrounding cast, lost 10 and this was facing only one "great" fast bowler in Larwood. Marshall hardly played with Holding if at all at his absolute best, and definately not Ambrose. Yes give them a good track and they would run through anyone.
 

hang on

State Vice-Captain
Sanga averages 69.63 in the 63 tests he has played in without the gloves, with 23 hundreds. Some remarkable stats are him averaging 84.9 in 6 tests in 2004, 121.60 in 4 tests in 2006, 138.28 in 7 tests in 2007, and 99.28 in 6 tests in 2010.

Plus his record against every nation apart from England is fantastic as a specialist bat.
the problem is his record in countries. in india, in saf, in england, in the windies, his record is poor.
 

watson

Banned
Just had a proper look at Sang's record again (trying not to confuse the Averages column with the Strike Rate column as I normally do) - and it is impressive. He does average in the 30s in England, India, South Africa, and the West Indies - but I'm not going to be overly fussy and refuse to call him an ATG.
 

Flametree

International 12th Man
Again:

Greg Chappell, Graeme Pollock, Wally Hammond, George Headley, Viv Richards, Brian Lara, Garry Sobers, Sachin Tendulkar, Jack Hobbs, Barry Richards

The next level would include:
Ricky Ponting, Neil Harvey, Everton Weekes, Clyde Walcott, Javed Miandad, Kumar Sagakarra, Frank Worrell, Allan Border, Jacques Kallis, Ken Barrington, Sunil Gavaskar, Len Hutton.
Would also include the likes of Rohan Kanhai, Steve Waugh, Denis Compton, Clive Lloyd, Peter May, Rahul Dravid, Bobby Simpson, Gordon Greenidge and Inzamam Ul-Haq with this group.
There's a guy who scored four and a half thousand test runs, average of 60, 150 first class centuries, once put on an opening stand of 555 for Yorkshire. Quite handy with the bat was H Sutcliffe. And yet he doesn't make the above list of 20 top batsmen, and wasn't picked in the "consensus" England side. I don't know what it is with this forum. If picking an all-time England side I put down Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Hammond at 1-4, and then start wondering who the other seven players should be....
 

Flametree

International 12th Man
And my take on an Indian xi :

Gavaskar
Merchant
Dravid
Tendulkar
Sehwag
Hazare
Kapil Dev
Kirmani *
Kumble
a spinner (Bedi, Prasanna, Chandra, Gupte... I don't know)
Mohammad Nissar

Looks a bit light on bowling, but Hazare or Sehwag can hold up an end, and at least there's plenty of variety....
 

watson

Banned
There's a guy who scored four and a half thousand test runs, average of 60, 150 first class centuries, once put on an opening stand of 555 for Yorkshire. Quite handy with the bat was H Sutcliffe. And yet he doesn't make the above list of 20 top batsmen, and wasn't picked in the "consensus" England side. I don't know what it is with this forum. If picking an all-time England side I put down Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Hammond at 1-4, and then start wondering who the other seven players should be....
I think that not including Sutcliffe in that 'next level' list is a genuine oversight, not deliberate.
 

watson

Banned
Why is it that Anil Kumble is invariably included in ATG Indian teams?

Not only are his Averages and Strike Rates uninspiring outside of India, but he is potentially the most boring spinner I've ever watched. No flight, hardly any sideways movement, and all medium pace at about the speed of Doug Walters. In fact I'd rather watch Dougie bowl.
 

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