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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #166
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    even a difference of 5-7 is huge. Anything less than 5 should be ok
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  2. #167
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Don't know about Barry playing in the middle order, never saw it happen.

    With regards the England ATXI, it always puzzles me why so few people have all 3 Hobbs, Sutcliffe and Hutton in the team. It makes perfect sense. To leave out any one of them borders on the incredulous.

    Hobbs* | Sutcliffe | Hutton | Hammond | Barrington | Botham | Knott +| Larwood | Laker/Verity | Trueman | Barnes

    Why would you leave Sutcliffe out when he was part of the greatest opening partnership in English history, and has a standalone average of 60 for goodness sake. As I said earlier, a difference of 5-7 runs in the averages is fine, but a difference of >10 should not be overlooked.
    Gun side there, would play Compton in place of Barrington though, otherwise there's not much to keep the runs flowing through the order until Botham
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  3. #168
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    West Indies XI

    Greenidge
    Fredericks
    Headley
    Richards
    Lara
    Sobers
    Hendriks
    Marshall
    Holding
    Ambrose
    Ramadhin

    I'm going with my gut feelings here; included Roy Fredericks, Jackie Hendriks and Sonny Ramadhin.

    Giving a nod to Fredericks for his ability to play pace on extreme fast pitches and score quickly too; although it doesn't matter that much for ATG XI to have left-right combo but still it's a factor. Jackie Hendriks for equally skillfull as wicket keeper to both pace and spin although this inclusion diminishes a bit of lower order batting strength. Clyde Walcott can perform the role and I wanted atleast one of three Ws to be there in the team but I've reached conclusion that for any ATG XI, leaving out a proper wicket keeper is not on. I've picked Sonny Ramadhin over Lance Gibbs. Although Gibbs could extract turn and bounce but Ramadhin could give it a rip and turn both ways sometimes. I've not seen Ramadhin's bowling but from accounts I'm assuming Ramadhin was more aggressive spinner than Gibbs. Maybe kyear can give more insight on this matter.
    Last edited by AndyZaltzHair; 10-09-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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  4. #169
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Nixon McLean stiff to miss out imo.
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  5. #170
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Nixon McLean stiff to miss out imo.
    And big Swervin' Mervyn Dillon for that matter.

    Both had the ability to chew an apple through a tennis racket.

  6. #171
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    And big Swervin' Mervyn Dillon for that matter.
    Reon King imho
    Last edited by AndyZaltzHair; 10-09-2012 at 01:37 PM.

  7. #172
    International Vice-Captain Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    And big Swervin' Mervyn Dillon for that matter.

    Both had the ability to chew an apple through a tennis racket.
    The Benjamins.
    I'll never fear you, buddy.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    The Benjamins.
    Cuffy..Everything about him pointed to another Amby but did not bowl like one..obviously

  9. #174
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyZaltzHair View Post
    West Indies XI

    Greenidge
    Fredericks
    Headley
    Richards
    Lara
    Sobers
    Hendriks
    Marshall
    Holding
    Ambrose
    Ramadhin

    I'm going with my gut feelings here; included Roy Fredericks, Jackie Hendriks and Sonny Ramadhin.

    Giving a nod to Fredericks for his ability to play pace on extreme fast pitches and score quickly too; although it doesn't matter that much for ATG XI to have left-right combo but still it's a factor. Jackie Hendriks for equally skillfull as wicket keeper to both pace and spin although this inclusion diminishes a bit of lower order batting strength. Clyde Walcott can perform the role and I wanted atleast one of three Ws to be there in the team but I've reached conclusion that for any ATG XI, leaving out a proper wicket keeper is not on. I've picked Sonny Ramadhin over Lance Gibbs. Although Gibbs could extract turn and bounce but Ramadhin could give it a rip and turn both ways sometimes. I've not seen Ramadhin's bowling but from accounts I'm assuming Ramadhin was more aggressive spinner than Gibbs. Maybe kyear can give more insight on this matter.
    Here is some footage of Ramadhin bowling. There are not a lot of deliveries, but we can still get an idea of how he bowled;

    1951/52: Australia tame Windies spin twins :: The largest library of cricket videos

    Ramadhin has a fast action with his left arm held high prior to delivery, and a full follow through with his right arm. Therefore, he looks a bit like a 'windmill' when he bowls. There is little body movement with most of the power seemingly coming from the shoulders. There is no classic pivot of the hips like Laker or Bedi. Consequently, I don't think that there would be much variation in flight. If the batsman is beaten then it wouldn't have been 'through the air', it would have been via the ball turning once it hit the pitch. But that's just an assumption.

    I couldn't make my mind up whether he was more side-on or chest-on when he bowled.

    Incidently, Ramadhin seems to be a good choice. Probably on a par with Gibbs, if not better due to his better variation.
    Last edited by watson; 10-09-2012 at 03:35 PM.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - David Gower - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

  10. #175
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Gibbs and Valentine were both bigger spinners of the ball than Ramadin, with Gibbs adding bounce and unerring accuratecy. Ramadin was the original mystery spimner who cound turn it both ways. Both Ramadin and Valentine though suffered through poor captaincy and being over bowled. All three are under rated and at their best, match winners. Gibbs, Ramadin and then Valentine.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  11. #176
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Don't understand the notion that Walcott was not a propper keeper. He made the W.I team as a keeper and during his initial struggles with the bat, it was his keeping that kept him in the team. he kept flawlessly to Ramdin and Valentine and was good to the faster guys. From talking to people who saw him keep, he didn't do a lot of diving, but had good footwork and was very safe and very comparable to a Gilchrist/ Boucher.
    Kindly also remember that Knott was not the best keeper during his time either, but was preferred because of his batting. Taylor and Andrew were much better keepers, but no one chooses them. And to remember, even Knott and Healy had big drops.

  12. #177
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyZaltzHair View Post
    West Indies XI

    Greenidge
    Fredericks
    Headley
    Richards
    Lara
    Sobers
    Hendriks
    Marshall
    Holding
    Ambrose
    Ramadhin

    I'm going with my gut feelings here; included Roy Fredericks, Jackie Hendriks and Sonny Ramadhin.

    Giving a nod to Fredericks for his ability to play pace on extreme fast pitches and score quickly too; although it doesn't matter that much for ATG XI to have left-right combo but still it's a factor. Jackie Hendriks for equally skillfull as wicket keeper to both pace and spin although this inclusion diminishes a bit of lower order batting strength. Clyde Walcott can perform the role and I wanted atleast one of three Ws to be there in the team but I've reached conclusion that for any ATG XI, leaving out a proper wicket keeper is not on. I've picked Sonny Ramadhin over Lance Gibbs. Although Gibbs could extract turn and bounce but Ramadhin could give it a rip and turn both ways sometimes. I've not seen Ramadhin's bowling but from accounts I'm assuming Ramadhin was more aggressive spinner than Gibbs. Maybe kyear can give more insight on this matter.
    Andy

    Gun side that, probably my favourite WI XI I've seen someone create. In regards to kyear's comment, Walcott keeping to Ambrose, Holding, Marshall, Big Joel etc. would not be nearly as successful as the great man Hendriks. Walcott's batting would also suffer as a result of keeping - he averaged 40 with the gloves, I'd expect a little lower keeping to the WI demons in this side, diminishing his value somewhat

  13. #178
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    But who said that he couldn't keep to Marshall, Ambrose, Holding and Gibbs. Keeping to fast bowling is easier that keeping to 98 overs of big LH turners and mystery spin. I have spoken to people who saw him keep and the three West Indian comentators/ historians I trust most all included him in their teams.

  14. #179
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Of course you could have a bet each way and pick Dujon. Probably not quite as good as Hendriks but still dynamic, and good enough to be selected in the WI team as a specialist batsman from time to time.

  15. #180
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Don't understand the notion that Walcott was not a propper keeper. He made the W.I team as a keeper and during his initial struggles with the bat, it was his keeping that kept him in the team. he kept flawlessly to Ramdin and Valentine and was good to the faster guys. From talking to people who saw him keep, he didn't do a lot of diving, but had good footwork and was very safe and very comparable to a Gilchrist/ Boucher.
    Kindly also remember that Knott was not the best keeper during his time either, but was preferred because of his batting. Taylor and Andrew were much better keepers, but no one chooses them. And to remember, even Knott and Healy had big drops.
    I can't think who 'Andrew' was, but I wouldn't say that Bob Taylor was a better than Knott. They were at least on a par.



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