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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #1756
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    I feel a little dirty saying this but Watson I actually agree with MOST of your reasoning when including Barnes, especially point number 3

    Personally I would still include Marshall or I would even go for Ambrose over Lillee but yeah solid ATG team.

    Monk, why Greenidge? What did Hutton, Sutcliffe, Gavaskar or someone like Hayden or Sehwag* not do well enough to be picked.

    What do future world openers have to do to knock out GG?



    * I rank Greenidge higher than the two but wanted to include a few attacking openers who average more.
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  2. #1757
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Monk, why Greenidge? What did Hutton, Sutcliffe, Gavaskar or someone like Hayden or Sehwag* not do well enough to be picked.

    What do future world openers have to do to knock out GG?

    * I rank Greenidge higher than the two but wanted to include a few attacking openers who average more.
    Greenidge was in his pomp when I was a kid, which probably sways my thinking a bit. All the openers you mentioned are valid choices, but I like the pairing of Hobbs with Greenidge at the moment.

    Regarding Hayden and Sehwag- I never saw Hayden really play well against a high quality attack. He was really good, no doubt, but I had doubts about him when the opposition attack was really good. He went missing in the 2005 Ashes for the most part. I love Sehwag, but I think GG was a very similar player, with a bit more consistency.

  3. #1758
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Finding a spot for Barnes XI


    - Jack Hobbs
    - Gordon Greenidge
    - Don Bradman
    - Viv Richards
    - Keith Miller
    - Garry Sobers
    - Adam Gilchrist
    - Imran Khan
    - Shane Warne
    - Dennis Lillee
    - SF Barnes


    Any perceived loss of batting by having Miller in the middle order is offset by Gilchrist at 7 and Imran at 8 (I don't personally think you lose much by having Miller there).

    Bowling attack is outstanding. Lillee, Imran, Miller, Warne, Barnes & Sobers.

    I actually love this team. It's my new ATG team.
    Just realised that we have rehashed Richie Benaud's attack from his ATG team - minus Keith Miller. Obviously Richie didn't feel the need to have a third fast bowler.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - David Gower - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  4. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Just realised that we have rehashed Richie Benaud's attack from his ATG team - minus Keith Miller. Obviously Richie didn't feel the need to have a third fast bowler.
    Great minds think alike Though Barnes in some ways is also a fast-medium bowler, pitch dependant.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath


  5. #1760
    International Regular harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Just realised that we have rehashed Richie Benaud's attack from his ATG team - minus Keith Miller. Obviously Richie didn't feel the need to have a third fast bowler.
    Yup, although it was a risky eleven in terms of bowling. Barnes-Lillee opening with Imran-Warne to follow.

    My quirky Barnes ATG XI

    Hobbs
    Barry
    Don
    Viv
    Sobers
    Gilly +
    Imran
    Hadlee
    Marshall
    Warne
    Barnes

    Generally prefer McGrath to Hadlee (did it on worse pitches), and Wasim to Imran (because of left arm variety), but the batting aspect overcomes that. Marshall-Warne at 9-10 is not a bad combo.

    As an aside, what do folks here think of a Marshall-McGrath-Robers (Andy) bowling attack, with Warne/Murali?
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  6. #1761
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Yup, although it was a risky eleven in terms of bowling. Barnes-Lillee opening with Imran-Warne to follow.

    My quirky Barnes ATG XI

    Hobbs
    Barry
    Don
    Viv
    Sobers
    Gilly +
    Imran
    Hadlee
    Marshall
    Warne
    Barnes

    Generally prefer McGrath to Hadlee (did it on worse pitches), and Wasim to Imran (because of left arm variety), but the batting aspect overcomes that. Marshall-Warne at 9-10 is not a bad combo.

    As an aside, what do folks here think of a Marshall-McGrath-Robers (Andy) bowling attack, with Warne/Murali?
    Gilchrist-Imran-Hadlee at 6-7-8 is possibly too weak for an ATG team.

    Miller spent most of his career at No.5, or 36 innings to be precise (average 42). Only on 4 occasions did he bat at No.7. In-other-words, he is a natural middle-order batsman.

    Therefore, Miller-Gilchrist-Imran at 6-7-8 is inherently quite strong as each batsman is in a position that is more usual to them. I don't ever recall Gilchrist batting at No.6 in a Test match.
    Last edited by watson; 17-04-2013 at 04:26 AM.

  7. #1762
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    My lineup with Barnes:

    1 Jack HOBBS
    2 Sunil GAVASKAR
    3 Don BRADMAN
    4 Garry SOBERS
    5 Brian LARA
    6 Adam GILCHRIST
    7 Imran KHAN
    8 Malcolm MARSHALL
    9 Shane WARNE
    10 Curtly AMBROSE
    11 Sydney BARNES

    I actually love this five man attack. Sobers to bat at 4 to almost solely focus on batting.

  8. #1763
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Sobers-Lara-Gilchrist in the middle-order? That team is totally ridiculous NUFAN. But I mean that in a nice way.

  9. #1764
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Haha yeah it's not my normal team or anything, I normally go for a more traditional 6 bats, keeper, spinner and 3 quicks such as:

    1 Hobbs 2 Hutton 3 Bradman 4 Richards 5 Hammond 6 Sobers 7 Gilchrist 8 Warne 9 Marshall 10 Ambrose 11 McGrath

  10. #1765
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    If the truth be known NUFAN your ridiculous team would probably beat your traditional team.

  11. #1766
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Prefer your traditional team Nufan. I will reiterate that for me Miller is over kill as a fifth bowler and not good enough of a batsman for an A.T. XI especially considering he is replacing Tendulkar/Richards/Lara/Hammond. In addition doing all of this to include a batsman that no one alive has ever seen play, that we will never be fully sure what exactly he bowled and one that we are not sure if what he would have bowled would have transferred to the modern era minus under prepared stickey wickets and matting pitches vs over matched opponents. Especially when at the expence of the two fast bolwers who have proven themselves the world over in all conditions and opponents.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  12. #1767
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    The pitches of Barnes' era were much the same as you'd find in any other. Some good, some bad. Frankly you'd be brave to omit a man who could exploit all types of pitches and bowl every delivery expertly apart from express. You'd want him in your side if only to stop your opponents picking him against you. Because it'd be pretty funny seeing him turn up for his lancashire league team and bowling out your team of champions for under a hundred.

  13. #1768
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    I will reiterate that for me Miller is over kill as a fifth bowler and not good enough of a batsman for an A.T. XI .
    Why?

  14. #1769
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    For me the role of the 5th bowler is just to assist with rotation and for rest if required for the primary four bowlers. The two best teams ever used four bowlers with Viv tossing in a few overs if required. Marshall, Warne and Mcgrath are each capable of marathon spells and maintainig effectiveness and Sobers is more than good enough to provide relief, keeping an end quiet and breaking a key partnership.

    Having a fifth bowler who might bowl about 10 overs an innings at most isn't worth sacrifcing having Viv Richards or Sachin Tendulkar in your team. Just my take.

  15. #1770
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    I'd most definitely bring Barnes in as the spinner if I really wanted to find a place for him.

    Hobbs
    Hutton
    Bradman
    Tendulkar
    Hammond
    Sobers
    Gilchrist
    Khan
    Marshall
    Ambrose
    Barnes
    "If that Swann lad is the future of spin bowling in this country, then we're ****ed." - Nasser Hussain, 1997.



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