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Thread: The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

  1. #151
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    Aus XI:

    Bob Simpson | Bill Ponsford | Don Bradman * | Ricky Ponting | Greg Chappell | Adam Gilchrist + | Keith Miller | Allan Davidson | Shane Warne | Dennis Lillee | Glenn McGrath

    It's little harsh to leave out Bill O'Reilly, but not sure if we really need two spinners in Aus XI.
    Or conversely, do we really need four fast bowlers in an Aussie ATG XI?

    Lillee-McGrath-Miller
    Lillee-Davidson-Miller
    McGrath-Davidson-Miller

    One of the above combo's should be plenty.
    "Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong" - Oscar Wilde

  2. #152
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    ENG XI:

    Jack Hobbs | Len Hutton* | Wally Hammond | Dennis Compton | Ken Barrington | Ian Botham | Les Ames + | Fred Trueman | Jim Laker | George Lohmann | Sydney Barnes

    That opening combo is one to die for...

  3. #153
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Gilchrist making it into an Australian AT XI upsets me somewhat - seems a keeper's batting is now well and truly more important than their glovework these days

    England
    1. Jack Hobbs
    2. Herbert Sutcliffe
    3. Wally Hammond
    4. Peter May
    5. Denis Compton
    6. Douglas Jardine
    7. Alan Knott
    8. Harold Larwood
    9. Hedley Verity
    10. Sydney Barnes
    11. Fred Trueman
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  4. #154
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    No Ian Botham?


  5. #155
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Gilchrist making it into an Australian AT XI upsets me somewhat - seems a keeper's batting is now well and truly more important than their glovework these days
    I agree with you about the importance of keeping, but I disagree if you're inferring that Gilchrist wasn't a good keeper. Keeping to Warne would have been the most difficult wicket-keeping task in the last 30-40 years, and Gilly did a very clean and efficient job of it.

    Gilchrist did drop some easy-ish catches late in his career, and to his credit he retired quickly, as he knew he was declining.

    I think there is a certain element of golden nostalgia associated with guys like Tallon, who were probably very very good, but I can't think of any reason why they were any more effective as keepers than Gilchrist, other than their peers saying they were good.
    Last edited by Monk; 10-09-2012 at 02:40 AM.
    I shiver, thinking how easy it is to be totally wrong about people - to see one tiny part of them and confuse it for the whole, to see the cause and think its the effect or vice versa.

  6. #156
    Dan
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    If we were comparing Andy Flower, for example, to Don Tallon that it's the latter every time. However, Gilchrist's wicketkeeping was fantastic, it just kept getting overshadowed by his batting. As a package, Gilchrist > Tallon.

    Australia:
    Bob Simpson
    Victor Trumper
    Sir Donald Bradman
    Greg Chappell
    Keith Miller
    Ricky Ponting
    Adam Gilchrist
    Shane Warne
    Dennis Lillee
    Bill O'Reilly
    Glenn McGrath
    (Alan Davidson)

    England
    Sir Leonard Hutton
    Sir Jack Hobbs
    Ken Barrington
    Denis Compton
    Wally Hammond
    Kevin Pietersen
    Sir Ian Botham
    Allan Knott
    Harold Larwood
    Fred Trueman
    Sydney Barnes
    (Jim Laker)

    South Africa
    Bruce Mitchell
    Barry Richards
    Dudley Nourse
    Graeme Pollock
    Jacques Kallis
    Aubrey Faulkner
    Dennis Lindsay
    Mike Procter
    Shaun Pollock
    Dale Steyn
    Allan Donald
    (Hugh Tayfield)

    India
    Sunil Gavaskar
    Vijay Merchant
    Rahul Dravid
    Sachin Tendulkar
    Vijay Hazare
    N Kapil Dev
    Farokh Engineer
    Anil Kumble
    Mohammad Nissar
    Erapalli Prassana
    Bishan Bedi
    (Javagal Srinath)

    Pakistan
    Hanif Mohammad
    Majid Khan
    Zaheer Abbas
    Javed Miandad
    Inzamam-ul-Haq
    Imran Khan
    Rashid Latif
    Wasim Akram
    Fazal Mahmood
    Abdul Qadir
    Waqar Younis
    (Saeed Anwar)

    West Indies
    Gordon Greenidge
    Sir Frank Worrell
    George Headley
    Brian Lara
    Sir Vivian Richards
    Sir Garfield Sobers
    Sir Clyde Walcott
    Malcolm Marshall
    Michael Holding
    Joel Garner
    Curtley Ambrose
    (Lance Gibbs)
    Last edited by Dan; 10-09-2012 at 03:16 AM.
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  7. #157
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd619323 View Post

    Australia:
    Bob Simpson
    Victor Trumper
    Sir Donald Bradman
    Ian Chappell
    Keith Miller
    Ricky Ponting
    Adam Gilchrist
    Shane Warne
    Dennis Lillee
    Bill O'Reilly
    Glenn McGrath
    (Alan Davidson)

    I like this, but I'm not sure if you meant Greg...

    If you didn't (or did) I like it, a lot...

  8. #158
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    I like this, but I'm not sure if you meant Greg...

    If you didn't (or did) I like it, a lot...
    Meant Greg. Went back and filled in first names later, and Chappelli is the first that springs to mind when I read the last name.

  9. #159
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Dan I think you place too much importance on the batting skills of wicketkeepers, at least for my liking. Gilchrist, Walcott, Lindsay and Latif are very much outclassed with the gloves by the likes of Healy, Dujon, Waite and Bari - it's all preference though, of course

  10. #160
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Dan I think you place too much importance on the batting skills of wicketkeepers, at least for my liking. Gilchrist, Walcott, Lindsay and Latif are very much outclassed with the gloves by the likes of Healy, Dujon, Waite and Bari - it's all preference though, of course
    Gilchrist's wicketkeeping was of an extremely high standard, and his batting far outweighs Healey's slight advantage with the gloves; you lose next to nothing behind the stumps, but nigh on 30 runs with the bat.

    Walcott is far too good to leave out, and kept with distinction to Ramadhin and Valentine. Ideally I'd play him as a specialist bat and pick Dujon, but the other middle order options are far too strong.

    Waite was extremely close to pushing Lindsay out, but once again I didn't feel like there was a huge difference in their wicketkeeping.

    And I originally did pick Bari, however I wanted to play Fazal and Akram isn't a Test number 7. If I played MoYo in place of Fazal, I would select Bari and bat him at 10.

  11. #161
    State 12th Man Flametree's Avatar
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    Not much love for Sutcliffe on these pages?

    England :
    1st xi : Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Hammond, Compton, Woolley, Knott *, Botham, Trueman, Laker, Barnes

    2nd xi : Boycott, Amiss, Barrington, May, Dexter, Leyland, Ames *, Verity, Larwood, Bedser, Statham

    3rd xi : Gooch, Edrich J, Mead, Paynter, Pietersen, Jackson FS, Tate, Evans *, Underwood, Snow, Lohmann

    Australia :
    1st xi : Ponsford, Simpson, Harvey, Bradman, Chappell G, Miller K, Gilchrist *, Davidson, Warne, O'Reilly, Lillee

    2nd xi : Trumper, Barnes, McCabe, Macartney, Border, Waugh S, Healy *, Lindwall, Grimmett, Turner, McGrath

    3rd xi : Morris, Lawry, Hill, Hassett, Walters, Hussey, Gregory, Tallon *, Gillespie, Grimmett, Johnston

  12. #162
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Gilchrist making it into an Australian AT XI upsets me somewhat - seems a keeper's batting is now well and truly more important than their glovework these days

    England
    1. Jack Hobbs
    2. Herbert Sutcliffe
    3. Wally Hammond
    4. Peter May
    5. Denis Compton
    6. Douglas Jardine
    7. Alan Knott
    8. Harold Larwood
    9. Hedley Verity
    10. Sydney Barnes
    11. Fred Trueman
    I like this team a lot. Not playing Botham enables the inclusion of a great captain - Jardine. Jardine and Botham batting at No.5 and No.6 respectively would weaken the middle-order far too much. As its stands there is plenty of depth and a nice blend of attacking and defensive batsman.

    It has two fast bowlers to share the new ball (one fast bowler is at least 50% short) and two very different spin bowlers who give excellent variety to the attack. Verity is preferred over Laker because he is just as skillful, but has the added bonus of being a left-armer. And a left-armer that Bradman happens to dislike facing.

    I still prefer John Snow over Verity, but that's just me being overly pedantic with the 'fire-power' thing. I'll leave Bradman to the angry skill of SF Barnes who would be more than capable of holding his own.

    I also think that a left-handed batsman gives added strength to the middle-order because they are better equiped to play leg-spinners. Gower, Leyland, and Woolley were all fabulous against leg-spin and would play Warne and O'Reilly exceedingly well in an Ashes battle.

    I don't think that the team loses anything at all by replacing Hutton with Sutcliffe. Both were defensive batsman with near perfect techniques, although Hutton probably had slightly better footwork against spin bowling.

    In a 5 Test match Ashes series I predict a 2-2 result with Australia having the better of the draw.
    Last edited by watson; 10-09-2012 at 03:54 AM.

  13. #163
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Agreed in regards to Sutcliffe/Hutton - pairing Sutcliffe with Hobbs gives you the boost of the greatest opening partnership of all - near telepathic running in between wickets, attack blending with defense etc.

  14. #164
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if Barry Richards batted in the middle order at any time during his FC career?

  15. #165
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Don't know about Barry playing in the middle order, never saw it happen.

    With regards the England ATXI, it always puzzles me why so few people have all 3 Hobbs, Sutcliffe and Hutton in the team. It makes perfect sense. To leave out any one of them borders on the incredulous.

    Hobbs* | Sutcliffe | Hutton | Hammond | Barrington | Botham | Knott +| Larwood | Laker/Verity | Trueman | Barnes

    Why would you leave Sutcliffe out when he was part of the greatest opening partnership in English history, and has a standalone average of 60 for goodness sake. As I said earlier, a difference of 5-7 runs in the averages is fine, but a difference of >10 should not be overlooked.

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