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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
Leyland's tour of WI was horrible but doesn't really expose that he had weakness in handling pace. Other English batsmen also failed often in that tour including Hammond. Leyland played fast bowlers like Farnes and Larwood well in county games.
 

watson

Banned
I also like Leyland's pragmatism and dry humour;

His modesty had a rueful smile. Reproved for getting out to a dolly catch off a near-wide, "Well, now," he apologised, "I don't get a lot o' practice against that sort."

This modesty was a part of his quiet confidence. "Nervous ? Of course I'm nervous. There you are, out in t' middle an there's 30,000 people all knowing better what to do than you do." Talking things over, after a bombing raid of bumpers, he reflected: "Nobody likes 'em, but some of us don't let on."

If he knew himself to have the measure of the great O'Reilly, who was no paper tiger, he also retained the respect of one master for another. Describing an over of fearsome hostility, he said: "First he bowled me an off-break, then he bowled me a leg-break; then his googly, then a bumper, then one that went with his arm . . . ."

"But that's only five, Maurice. What about the last one ?"

"Oh, that," said Maurice deprecatingly. "That was a straight 'un and it bowled me."

The vintage Leyland story concerns a Test in which Australia had amassed a mammoth score and Leyland went in, bent on what seemed his regular task, to retrieve England's bad start. He did his duty faultlessly but, farm the bowling as he might, wicket after wicket fell and a quarter of an hour before the close England, with seven wickets down, were still some 300 behind. Batsman No. 9 hit his first ball into the covers and started on a nimble single. Leyland waved his eager partner back. " Wait your hurry, Mr. Robins. We shan't get 'em all tonight."

Maurice Leyland | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
 
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The Battlers Prince

International Vice-Captain
can someone tell me why it happens that Hobbs and Hutton almost always get chosen (I understand they were a great partnership) but that then Thommo doesn't get picked when Lillee is, or other great partnerships?
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
I agree, I might only see the wrong lists, but, I see a fair few with Hutton, but I guess he was good as well, just opinions
Hobbs and Hutton never played together. Personally, I see Hobbs, Hutton and Sutcliffe as the 3 greatest openers of all time. Gavaskar is a close fourth. Most people do choose Hutton over Sutcliffe to partner Hobbs.

Hobbs is pretty much an automatic selection. I choose Sutcliffe because he played with Hobbs, and they had the most successful opening partnership of all time. Plus you know, this.
 

watson

Banned
Hobbs and Hutton never played together. Personally, I see Hobbs, Hutton and Sutcliffe as the 3 greatest openers of all time. Gavaskar is a close fourth. Most people do choose Hutton over Sutcliffe to partner Hobbs.

Hobbs is pretty much an automatic selection. I choose Sutcliffe because he played with Hobbs, and they had the most successful opening partnership of all time. Plus you know, this.
Hutton is generally my first choice because of the Lindwall and Miller 'factor'. Gregory and McDonald were good, but Australia's post-WWII new ball bowlers were simply better.
 
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Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Just based on statsguru (batting stats in each position, bowling stats for openers, first change etc) an ATG team would look like this (min 30 innings)

Herbert Sutcliffe
Bruce Mitchell
Don Bradman*
Everton Weekes
AB de Villiers
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Adam Gilchrist+
Muttiah Muralitharan (3)
George Lohmann (1)
Sydney Barnes (2)
Courtney Walsh (4)
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
For mine Hutton is also an automatic pick over Sutcliffe for two reasons. He faced much better bowlers with Lindwall and Miller and Ramadin and Valentine ect, additionally while Hutton wasn't the fastest scorer, Sutcliffe was down right pedestrian and scored just too slowly. Also it should be noted that while Sutcliffe had the higher compared to Hobbs and batted together, Hobbs was still unnanimously seen as the better batsman, also of interest is that Hobbs seemed to make all openers who played with him better including Rhodes. Finally Hobbs and Hutton were both #1 openers, while Sutcliffe was the clear #2 to Hobbs.

If we were to choose opening bowlers as a tandem though (which isn't a merit less idea) it would have to be Marshall and Garner.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
The more I learn about Hutton, the more I admire him. I think he's probably the greatest opener ever.
 

King Pietersen

International Captain
1. Sir Jack Hobbs
2. Barry Richards
3. Sir Donald Bradman
4. Sir Viv Richards
5. Sir Garfield Sobers
6. Graeme Pollock
7. Alan Knott
8. Shane Warne
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Malcolm Marshall
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The more I learn about Hutton, the more I admire him. I think he's probably the greatest opener ever.
I agree - had he had a full international career I think Barry Richards would have shaded him, but he didn't, so it's still Sir Len in my book
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
The more I learn about Hutton, the more I admire him. I think he's probably the greatest opener ever.
Yup, especially when one considers that horrible injury he sustained suring the war, the bowlers he faced before and after the war and breaking Bradman's record againts O'Reilly with Bradman starring him down from cover.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
- Len Hutton
- Barry Richards
- Don Bradman
- Greg Chappell
- Viv Richards
- Garry Sobers
- Adam Gilchrist
- Shane Warne
- Malcolm Marshall
- Dennis Lillee
- Glenn McGrath

I just can't see this team being beaten very often by any other combo. Has it all really. Would love to fit a left arm quick (Wasim) in there, and also to have one more left hand bat in the top 6, but there's no reason why Sobers couldn't bat at 4 if the captain was inclined.

Highly competent cordon- Barry Richards, Greg Chappell, Shane Warne and Garry Sobers.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
A composite AT XI using recent named XI's in this thread and using XI's listed in sigs shows an interesting trend. No Tendulkar. It's a very small sample but using the teams listed on this page and the XI's of coronis, D.O.G., Watson and myself the only unanimous picks would be Bradman, Sobers and Marshall with Warne and Hobbs just missing from one. Tendulkar made just one of those teams (mine). A composite team would be.

Jack Hobbs (5)
Len Hutton (4)
Don Bradman (6)
Graeme Pollock (3)
Viv Richards (3)
Garry Sobers (6)
Adam Gilchrist (4)
Malcolm Marshall (6)
Shane Warne (5)
Dennis Lillee (3)
Glenn McGrath (3)

As ususal the two middle order slots and the two fast bolwer slots behind Marshall were the closest and most varied contests. After Zimbabwe will do an open vote fo an AT XI similar to the ones conducted for the different nations, or one similar to how Cricinfo did their selection with each person naming their first two XI's with 6 points for a fist team vote and 2 for a place in the second team. Probably the latter.
Just a reminder, the official team we selected using Benauds method was : Hobbs, Hutton, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Marshall, Warne and Mcgrath.
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Currently reworking my second team. Note, a work in progress.

Barry Richards
Sunil Gavaskar
George Headley
Greg Chappell
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Clyde Walcott +
Alan Davidson
Curtly Ambrose
Dennis Lillee
Mutiah Muralitharan

Walcott in because the more I speak to people who saw him keep the more I am convinced he was a very good keeper, plus he is also probably the most under rated batsman in test cricket and for me better than Weekes or Worrell with the bat, though probably the least aesthetically pleasing. I am currently in a Barry Richards deserves to be in the first team phase, but don't think Hutton should be dropped, and Hobbs is the master after all.
 
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NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
kyear, the Zim XI has been going for almost a month, I don't think it would be a problem doing the all time now.

I like the idea of having to name 2 teams, I wonder why they thought 6 points for the top team and 2 points for the second team were relevant numbers to win? Perhaps its because it Shield Cricket that's how many points you get for an outright win and a first innings win.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
A knights XI

Sir John Berry Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald George Bradman*
Sir Everton de Courcy Weekes
Sir Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards
Sir Garfield St Aubrun Sobers
Sir Clyde Leopold Walcott+
Sir Ian Terence Botham
Sir Richard John Hadlee
Sir H.D.G Leveson Gower
Sir Alec Victor Bedser

Needed Leveson Gower for some spin. Was tempted by Cardus.
 

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