Sense of Achievement

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

When a bowler takes a wicket, there is always some personal celebration and joy regardless of the batsman, but when that wicket is the so-called 'prized scalp' this is even more so.

I've been considering some things and many of these forum members will know that I rate Tendulkar very very highly, but is he really a prized scalp? I've seen Tendulkar bat many time (not as much as our Indian friends though) and I've seen him get out to good deliveries on most occasions, rather than get himself out. He is also not immune to getting beaten and giving half-chances.

Then I turn my attention to Ricky Ponting. Now it may just be me, but I think that bowlers feel a greater sense of achievement when they dismiss Ponting (than Tendulkar) through no fault of his, but rather with a good delivery. Ponting tends to give away his wicket at times with essayed big shots, so when you actually work him out, it should be an achievement. Generally he doesn't look as 'outable' or rather 'mortal' as Sachin does which adds to this.

I am by no means insinuating that Ponting is a better batsman than Tendulkar (only God knows) but I stand by my point that he's more of a prized wicket.

 

[Gaijin-san]

I would think the sense of occasion is bigger when you're playing Australia.
For example, MacGill dismissed Ponting in an ING match on the weekend. There was no obvious jubilation at his wicket, just the same level of celebration as for any other batsman.
Does that make sense?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think I understand where you're coming from. For instance I can't comment on the sense of achievement when Lara is genuinely dismissed because I am a West Indian fan and I don't know what it is like having him as an opposing batsman.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'll be able to remind you of that feeling often come April, Liam.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'll be able to remind you of that feeling often come April, Liam.

... 500+ runs later...

 

[Tom Halsey]

er...no...0 runs later...

 

[Rich2001]

Then I turn my attention to Ricky Ponting. Now it may just be me, but I think that bowlers feel a greater sense of achievement when they dismiss Ponting (than Tendulkar) through no fault of his, but rather with a good delivery. Ponting tends to give away his wicket at times with essayed big shots, so when you actually work him out, it should be an achievement. Generally he doesn't look as 'outable' or rather 'mortal' as Sachin does which adds to this.

I am by no means insinuating that Ponting is a better batsman than Tendulkar (only God knows) but I stand by my point that he's more of a prized wicket.

I would disagre with this because IMO R.Ponting always looks unsure at the start of his innings and you always feel you can get him early, if not however and he gets himself in... then yes it becomes a much more rewarding wicket.... also I think getting Tendulkar is bigger as he is generally regarded as "India" basically if he fails India will fail etc and therfore he is a much tougher player, and plays alot more defensive at times due to knowing if he throws his wicket away India will be introuble and not much batting to come... whereas R.Ponting has so much more freedom to play his shots, knowing that you have Marty, Waugh, Someone like Lehmann and then to top it all off a stupidy good number 7 who can hit double 100's and completly change a match in a hour or so, and even the tail aren't half bad on their day.... in short Ricky knows he can play his natural game in confidence of someone else covering should he fail, Tendulkar meanwhile has alot less and therfore has to quite often modify his game to the situation.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Re: Re: Sense of Achievement

I would disagre with this because IMO R.Ponting always looks unsure at the start of his innings and you always feel you can get him early, if not however and he gets himself in... then yes it becomes a much more rewarding wicket.... also I think getting Tendulkar is bigger as he is generally regarded as "India" basically if he fails India will fail etc and therfore he is a much tougher player, and plays alot more defensive at times due to knowing if he throws his wicket away India will be introuble and not much batting to come... whereas R.Ponting has so much more freedom to play his shots, knowing that you have Marty, Waugh, Someone like Lehmann and then to top it all off a stupidy good number 7 who can hit double 100's and completly change a match in a hour or so, and even the tail aren't half bad on their day.... in short Ricky knows he can play his natural game in confidence of someone else covering should he fail, Tendulkar meanwhile has alot less and therfore has to quite often modify his game to the situation.

Exactly right, mate. Agree with every word

 

[masterblaster]

Yeah, Rich pretty much summed it up there.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I also think teams want to get real slogger, though (like me) because they know that if he gats going then he could have 50 in 30 minutes. I agree with every word you said, though, Rich, just adding a bit more

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Re: Re: Sense of Achievement

I would disagre with this because IMO R.Ponting always looks unsure at the start of his innings and you always feel you can get him early, if not however and he gets himself in... then yes it becomes a much more rewarding wicket.... also I think getting Tendulkar is bigger as he is generally regarded as "India" basically if he fails India will fail etc and therfore he is a much tougher player, and plays alot more defensive at times due to knowing if he throws his wicket away India will be introuble and not much batting to come... whereas R.Ponting has so much more freedom to play his shots, knowing that you have Marty, Waugh, Someone like Lehmann and then to top it all off a stupidy good number 7 who can hit double 100's and completly change a match in a hour or so, and even the tail aren't half bad on their day.... in short Ricky knows he can play his natural game in confidence of someone else covering should he fail, Tendulkar meanwhile has alot less and therfore has to quite often modify his game to the situation.

I think you missed my point. I wasn't referring to a match context, I was referring more to a player v player context in the way that you can say 'I got Ponting out with a magnificient ball'. Ponting may look a bit uncertain at the start of his innings, but you (the viewer) never really expect him to get out. We might hope it, but we don't honestly expect it. Tendulkar, on the other hand, I have seen troubled at various stages of his innings, and when he's dismissed, it's usually to sharp bowling whereas Ponting doesn't generally get outfoxed by the opposition attack. He tends to gift it after smashing his 100odd :P.

 

[Langeveldt]

Well I know the wickets the South African bowlers valued most were Steve Waugh and Mike Atherton (Grit and Determination) and Sachin Tendulkar (massive repuatation)

personally I would agree, although for me the prize wicket would be the guy who looks to get under your skin... So I would reserve the biggest send offs for guys like Jack Russel, Cork, maybe even Murali Just for being irritating

 

[Tom Halsey]

Mike Atherton

Nice to know that English batsmen are respected in the South African camp.

 

[Eclipse]

I always feel Ponting is a chance off getting out early if there is somthing in the pitch.

But then again it's mostly because he tries to drive on the rise so often before he is settled.

With Tendulkar he is less likley to hurt you quite as bady as Ponting can these days.

 

[masterblaster]

With Tendulkar he is less likley to hurt you quite as bady as Ponting can these days.

Whoahoahoah

I disagree with you on that one, WC 2003 Pakistan anyone?
TVS Cup against Australia and NZ anyone?
Sharjah 1998 against Australia anyone?

Tendulkar is a far more mature player than he was, but if he were to go into his aggressive 'zone', it would be a site that none of you have ever seen.

 

[Eclipse]

I have seen Tendulkar when he really goes on the rampage but the facts are he does it less often than he used to.

Ponting plays more aggressivly than Tendulkar in test cricket and has for the last 2 or so years.

And if Ponting really decides to go he can be really explosive his last two hundreds against India in ODI's have had 7 and 8 sixes in them respectivly and the fact India did not get him early in both innings when he looked valnerable really cost them massive time.

Also all of those sixes came in the last 15 overs of both matches it's not like he had the freedom of knowing the feild was up and any decently lofted shot would be safe.

At the moment I think Ponting hit's the ball as far and as hard as anyone when he is in the mood.

 

[Gaijin-san]

Some of you guys are missing what I replied to Liam with.. I noted that the sense of occasion is bigger against Australia and I stick by that. I think that player vs player you can argue whatever you want, but an Australian wicket is generally more precious than an Indian wicket to a bowler, one would think.

 

[V Reddy]

Re: Re: Re: Sense of Achievement

I think you missed my point. I wasn't referring to a match context, I was referring more to a player v player context in the way that you can say 'I got Ponting out with a magnificient ball'. Ponting may look a bit uncertain at the start of his innings, but you (the viewer) never really expect him to get out. We might hope it, but we don't honestly expect it. Tendulkar, on the other hand, I have seen troubled at various stages of his innings, and when he's dismissed, it's usually to sharp bowling whereas Ponting doesn't generally get outfoxed by the opposition attack. He tends to gift it after smashing his 100odd :P.

I take it that you aren't watching the India Aus test match .