Is running out the non-striker when he's backing up "against the spirit of the game"?

Uppercut · 30-08-2012, 12:26 PM

BBC Sport - Somerset v Surrey: Murali Kartik causes run-out controversy

Murali Kartik getting in some hot water over this one.

I reckon it's absolutely fine. He's not just wandering out of his crease for a merry stroll, he's trying to gain a sporting advantage by backing up. Why on earth should the fielding team allow that?

silentstriker · 30-08-2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

If a batsman is out on a stroll, in spite of being warned, does that count as being in the spirit of the game?

"Then why do wicketkeepers try to run batsman out when they are batting out of the crease to slow seamers to negate their swing. Why the hypocrisy in spirit?

Pretty much.

Trichromatic · 30-08-2012, 12:52 PM

In a game where run-outs and stump-out are decided by few cms, it's unfair for a batsman to gain advantage by backing up. Fielders should be allowed to dismiss them without warning. If that seems unfair to the batsman then it would unfair to them who step out of crease and stumped by wicket keeper without warning or those who are dismissed run outs without any warning.

benchmark00 · 30-08-2012, 12:58 PM

It is against the spirit if no warning is given by the bowler. Otherwise it would turn into a farce, because batsmen generally don't look at the ball when it is being bowled, they time leaving the crease for when they expect the ball to be released. So if the bowler goes to bowl but holds the ball there's every chance the non striker will be out of his crease despite not trying to gain an unfair advantage like you're trying to make out.

Taking 10 wickets by tricking the non striker is clearly not in the spirit of the contest.

MrPrez · 30-08-2012, 01:06 PM

It's perfectly fine imo.

Uppercut · 30-08-2012, 01:07 PM

I didn't say it was an unfair advantage. Timing the leaving of your crease with when you think the ball is going to be bowled, as opposed to when you see it bowled, gives you an advantage over the fielding side. I don't really see why they should be honour-bound to allow that. If it's fine to do it after issuing a warning, then they might as well issue a universal warning at the start of every match and stop the batsmen from taking advantage of their wish to avoid the ten-run-outs scenario.

Viscount Tom · 30-08-2012, 01:09 PM

Fine if they keep backing up.

benchmark00 · 30-08-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uppercut

I didn't say it was an unfair advantage. Timing the leaving of your crease with when you think the ball is going to be bowled, as opposed to when you see it bowled, gives you an advantage over the fielding side. I don't really see why they should be honour-bound to allow that. If it's fine to do it after issuing a warning, then they might as well issue a universal warning at the start of every match and stop the batsmen from taking advantage of their wish to avoid the ten-run-outs scenario.

Well you obviously don't know what the spirit of cricket is. It's about ensuring a good clean game of cricket where the team with the best cricket skills wins the contest.

When a batsman tries to time leaving the crease he is doing so in good faith, i.e. he does so under the assumption the bowler is going to release the ball like he should in cricket. He is not trying to illegally exit his crease. A skill of cricket is not acting. Going up and pretending to deliver the ball but holding it is not a skill associated with the game, so it should not be rewarded. If the bowler thinks the batsman is trying to gain an unfair advantage, warn him at the time, then all bets are off. Until then, he is given the benefit of the doubt.

Prince EWS · 30-08-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benchmark00

It is against the spirit if no warning is given by the bowler. Otherwise it would turn into a farce, because batsmen generally don't look at the ball when it is being bowled, they time leaving the crease for when they expect the ball to be released. So if the bowler goes to bowl but holds the ball there's every chance the non striker will be out of his crease despite not trying to gain an unfair advantage like you're trying to make out.

Taking 10 wickets by tricking the non striker is clearly not in the spirit of the contest.

Agree. In this instance though he actually was warned.

benchmark00 · 30-08-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Agree. In this instance though he actually was warned.

Yeah wasn't commenting on this specific issue, just as a general concept.

MrPrez · 30-08-2012, 01:20 PM

I didn't watch the particular match but was Kartik actually dummying the batsman? If the bowler is actively looking to find a case where the batsman is overstepping just to be a **** then obviously it's wrong, but if the batsman is obviously getting a headstart and the bowler notices this then I have no qualms with Mankading.

MrPrez · 30-08-2012, 01:21 PM

Screw the late post. I think I made my standpoint on when it is ok and when it isn't clear, though.

GIMH · 30-08-2012, 01:28 PM

Yeah Uppercut, you obviously don't understand the spirit of cricket. Only possible reason for an independently thought out opinion.

Uppercut · 30-08-2012, 01:32 PM

I know, it's just as well benchy's around to tell me why I hold all of my opinions. Enlightening.

benchmark00 · 30-08-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uppercut

I know, it's just as well benchy's around to tell me why I hold all of my opinions. Enlightening.

You're allowed to hold an opinion. But I'm allowed to point out that you're wrong.

View Poll Results: Running out a backing up non-striker is:
Fine	32	76.19%
Unsporting	6	14.29%
Flamboyantly Gay	4	9.52%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

30-08-2012, 01:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
MrPrez First Class Debutant Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Africa Posts: 899	It's perfectly fine imo. __________________ @CowsCorner - 151 followers and counting! Check out the blog too: http://cowscorner.wordpress.com Latest Blog post: Kallis – The Unsung Hero (Inspired by a debate right here on cricketweb!)

30-08-2012, 01:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
GIMH Eternal Optimist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Shake my tree where's the apple for me? Posts: 43,599	Yeah Uppercut, you obviously don't understand the spirit of cricket. Only possible reason for an independently thought out opinion. __________________ Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they’ll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

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30-08-2012, 12:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
Trichromatic School Boy/Girl Cricketer Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: India Posts: 89	In a game where run-outs and stump-out are decided by few cms, it's unfair for a batsman to gain advantage by backing up. Fielders should be allowed to dismiss them without warning. If that seems unfair to the batsman then it would unfair to them who step out of crease and stumped by wicket keeper without warning or those who are dismissed run outs without any warning.

30-08-2012, 01:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Uppercut Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 21,770	I didn't say it was an unfair advantage. Timing the leaving of your crease with when you think the ball is going to be bowled, as opposed to when you see it bowled, gives you an advantage over the fielding side. I don't really see why they should be honour-bound to allow that. If it's fine to do it after issuing a warning, then they might as well issue a universal warning at the start of every match and stop the batsmen from taking advantage of their wish to avoid the ten-run-outs scenario.

30-08-2012, 01:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
MrPrez First Class Debutant Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Africa Posts: 899	I didn't watch the particular match but was Kartik actually dummying the batsman? If the bowler is actively looking to find a case where the batsman is overstepping just to be a **** then obviously it's wrong, but if the batsman is obviously getting a headstart and the bowler notices this then I have no qualms with Mankading.

30-08-2012, 01:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
MrPrez First Class Debutant Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Africa Posts: 899	Screw the late post. I think I made my standpoint on when it is ok and when it isn't clear, though.

30-08-2012, 01:32 PM	#14 (permalink)
Uppercut Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Norn Iron Posts: 21,770	I know, it's just as well benchy's around to tell me why I hold all of my opinions. Enlightening.

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